October 31, 20168 yr Glad you finally got it. I probably shouldn't have assumed that the topic was about the topic And thanks for the compliment about being Teken-like.
October 31, 20168 yr Glad you finally got it. I probably shouldn't have assumed that the topic was about the topic And thanks for the compliment about being Teken-like. The topic is about outdoor motion sensors which is a lot more than just PIR. it can active infrared, microwave, sonic, video and many many more. I'm sorry you seem to be so confused this weekend. Hope your better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
October 31, 20168 yr I tried moving a red laser pointer (infrared light) across a PIR motion sensor. No response from the motion sensor. Then I tried using the infrared light from a CCTV camera (the camera can see what the infrared beam illuminates). Nothing detected. I even tried an IR remote control. An iPhone camera sees the laser beam as white light and a remote control beam as a red light. Each detector (camera, IR remote receiver, motion sensor, IR aircraft wing de-icer, IR ovens, IR data transmission) is specifically designed to respond to different properties of infrared radiation. PIR motion sensor do not respond light energy in photons, but rather the radiated thermal properties (not the same as thermal conduction). This topic is about motion sensors, not infrared photography. I'm not implying that the posts about the other aspects of infrared aren't both interesting and true. I'm actually enjoying reading them But, they're not pertinent to the topic. All these thing you tried are emitting incorrect frequencies of IR to trigger a PIR sensor. The IR spectrum is many times wider than the visible light spectrum.
October 31, 20168 yr iR is definitely light that many animals see by. It is not "visible light" to humans but defintely "visible light" to dogs and cats. I don't think animals eyes respond with "visual signals" to heat. iR is not heat. iR is the light that a hot body emits and easy converted back to heat when absorbed ny a receptor material. The better motion sensors used two receptors to differentiate between motion and just changing ambient iR light. Now it seems that most motion sensors have attempted to go cheap by having a single receptor look through a prismatic lens in order to simulate the same feature, and it doesn't work well. Lightning and car lights flashing past set them off frequently. Edited October 31, 20168 yr by larryllix
October 31, 20168 yr Here is detail of the area of spectrum...<chart snipped> Note no light is shone on the definitions and wikipedia and many other documents are incorrect by stating "visible light" without the human adjective, Insect see by UV light and many mamals see by iR light...all meeting the "visible" definition. Now wait a minute..... many telescopes see in RF band energy. Do they "See" making those rf bands "visible" also? hmmmm...where does "visible" stop coming out of the closet? Edited October 31, 20168 yr by larryllix
October 31, 20168 yr 'visible' refers to the typical range the human eye can perceive without the aid of wavelength shifting technologies.
October 31, 20168 yr 'visible' refers to the typical range the human eye can perceive without the aid of wavelength shifting technologies. OK...I'll bite. Does this mean animals that have eyes see light that isn't "visible"? It is visible to them. I would think (without reference) that "visible" means something could see it. I am going to disclude machines though...LOL Edited October 31, 20168 yr by larryllix
October 31, 20168 yr Nope. It just applies to human visible range. It's well understood in the scientific world. Yes, other species have different visible ranges. It matters not to the generally accepted definition though.
October 31, 20168 yr The better motion sensors used two receptors to differentiate between motion and just changing ambient iR light.. That's true. I hadn't considered motion sensors (this forum's topic) other than PIR. I wasn't all inclusive regarding such sensors. But now this discussion in now ALL inclusive. Off topic, but fun
October 31, 20168 yr That's true. I hadn't considered motion sensors (this forum's topic) other than PIR. I wasn't all inclusive regarding such sensors. But now this discussion in now ALL inclusive. Off topic, but fun Open your mind and embrace the wonderful world of technology. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
October 31, 20168 yr Open your mind and embrace the wonderful world of technology. Is it just me or did you, too, at no time make mention of ultrasonic sensors? That is, until I allluded to it. Nope, not even then. BTW, haven't you noticed the crack in my mind? If not, I don't mind. It doesn't matter
October 31, 20168 yr What? I never mentioned ultrasonic. And I can't see where you alluded to it. I hope you get better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk Edited October 31, 20168 yr by GaryFunk
October 31, 20168 yr What? I never mentioned ultrasonic. And I can't see where you alluded to it. I hope you get better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk You did mention 'sonic' which in the context of motion sensors usually means ultrasonic... The topic is about outdoor motion sensors which is a lot more than just PIR. it can active infrared, microwave, sonic, video and many many more. Edited October 31, 20168 yr by MWareman
October 31, 20168 yr You did mention 'sonic' which in the context of motion sensors usually means ultrasonic... Yes, I did mention sonic which was meant to cover all sound waves. And I still don't see where anyone else alluded to it. I did forget to mention vibration and weight. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk Edited October 31, 20168 yr by GaryFunk
October 31, 20168 yr I did forget to mention vibration and weight. Finally, you admit to being amiss.
October 31, 20168 yr Finally, you admit to being amiss.No. Just adding more details. I. S. B. S. P. Best regards, Gary Funk
October 31, 20168 yr Sonic pertains to sound, but ultrasonic isn't sound because humans can't hear it, thus the prefix "ultra" Look at the time. Somebody isn't getting enough sleep. "OK mommy" Edited October 31, 20168 yr by larryllix
October 31, 20168 yr Plus there is subsonic, hypersonic etc... Let's not play favorites! OK, below sound, above sound but they are all sonic meaning sound? hmmm..... Anyway, back to Stu's interjection (that a word?) post. I would like to hear more about utrasonic motion sensors? I haven't heard that term for about 40 years. Edited October 31, 20168 yr by larryllix
October 31, 20168 yr They can be pretty common in residential systems... Because the active type are detecting a change in the echo pattern, resulting from unexpected extra objects in the room changing its 'shape'. They don't rely on changing temperatures... http://www.homesecurityguru.com/ultrasonic-motion-sensors There are disadvantages though. Edited October 31, 20168 yr by MWareman
October 31, 20168 yr I'll interject (interrupt/comment) here: http://www.homesecurityguru.com/ultrasonic-motion-sensors http://www.facilitiesnet.com/lighting/article/Occupancy-Sensors-Passive-Infrared-Ultrasonic-and-Dual-Technology-Facility-Management-Lighting-Feature--9608 http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/projects/turning-on-a-light-with-ultrasonic-motion-detection/ https://ultrasonicsensor.wordpress.com/ for something more technical https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.1732.pdf and if you actually want one https://www.amazon.com/Enerlites-Technology-Occupancy-Ultrasonic-Detectors/dp/B00KWLEL98/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949681&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasonic+motion+sensor
October 31, 20168 yr I'll interject (interrupt/comment) here: <snanippage> d if you actually want one https://www.amazon.com/Enerlites-Technology-Occupancy-Ultrasonic-Detectors/dp/B00KWLEL98/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949681&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasonic+motion+sensor That looks like a nice unit! For $40 youget a combo sensor with logic...iR, Usonic, or both! Too bad it wasn't Insteon too! LOL. It would be somewhat ugly in a visible (it would have to be) wall switch.
October 31, 20168 yr I currently use Lutron in-wall motion sensors wired to Micro Modules making then Insteon devices. I'll probably try the combo if I have need for another sensor.
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