stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Glad you finally got it. I probably shouldn't have assumed that the topic was about the topic And thanks for the compliment about being Teken-like.
G W Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Glad you finally got it. I probably shouldn't have assumed that the topic was about the topic And thanks for the compliment about being Teken-like. The topic is about outdoor motion sensors which is a lot more than just PIR. it can active infrared, microwave, sonic, video and many many more. I'm sorry you seem to be so confused this weekend. Hope your better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 I tried moving a red laser pointer (infrared light) across a PIR motion sensor. No response from the motion sensor. Then I tried using the infrared light from a CCTV camera (the camera can see what the infrared beam illuminates). Nothing detected. I even tried an IR remote control. An iPhone camera sees the laser beam as white light and a remote control beam as a red light. Each detector (camera, IR remote receiver, motion sensor, IR aircraft wing de-icer, IR ovens, IR data transmission) is specifically designed to respond to different properties of infrared radiation. PIR motion sensor do not respond light energy in photons, but rather the radiated thermal properties (not the same as thermal conduction). This topic is about motion sensors, not infrared photography. I'm not implying that the posts about the other aspects of infrared aren't both interesting and true. I'm actually enjoying reading them But, they're not pertinent to the topic. All these thing you tried are emitting incorrect frequencies of IR to trigger a PIR sensor. The IR spectrum is many times wider than the visible light spectrum.
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 iR is definitely light that many animals see by. It is not "visible light" to humans but defintely "visible light" to dogs and cats. I don't think animals eyes respond with "visual signals" to heat. iR is not heat. iR is the light that a hot body emits and easy converted back to heat when absorbed ny a receptor material. The better motion sensors used two receptors to differentiate between motion and just changing ambient iR light. Now it seems that most motion sensors have attempted to go cheap by having a single receptor look through a prismatic lens in order to simulate the same feature, and it doesn't work well. Lightning and car lights flashing past set them off frequently.
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Here is detail of the area of spectrum...<chart snipped> Note no light is shone on the definitions and wikipedia and many other documents are incorrect by stating "visible light" without the human adjective, Insect see by UV light and many mamals see by iR light...all meeting the "visible" definition. Now wait a minute..... many telescopes see in RF band energy. Do they "See" making those rf bands "visible" also? hmmmm...where does "visible" stop coming out of the closet?
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 'visible' refers to the typical range the human eye can perceive without the aid of wavelength shifting technologies.
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 'visible' refers to the typical range the human eye can perceive without the aid of wavelength shifting technologies. OK...I'll bite. Does this mean animals that have eyes see light that isn't "visible"? It is visible to them. I would think (without reference) that "visible" means something could see it. I am going to disclude machines though...LOL
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Nope. It just applies to human visible range. It's well understood in the scientific world. Yes, other species have different visible ranges. It matters not to the generally accepted definition though.
stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 The better motion sensors used two receptors to differentiate between motion and just changing ambient iR light.. That's true. I hadn't considered motion sensors (this forum's topic) other than PIR. I wasn't all inclusive regarding such sensors. But now this discussion in now ALL inclusive. Off topic, but fun
G W Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 That's true. I hadn't considered motion sensors (this forum's topic) other than PIR. I wasn't all inclusive regarding such sensors. But now this discussion in now ALL inclusive. Off topic, but fun Open your mind and embrace the wonderful world of technology. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Open your mind and embrace the wonderful world of technology. Is it just me or did you, too, at no time make mention of ultrasonic sensors? That is, until I allluded to it. Nope, not even then. BTW, haven't you noticed the crack in my mind? If not, I don't mind. It doesn't matter
G W Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 What? I never mentioned ultrasonic. And I can't see where you alluded to it. I hope you get better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 What? I never mentioned ultrasonic. And I can't see where you alluded to it. I hope you get better soon. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk You did mention 'sonic' which in the context of motion sensors usually means ultrasonic... The topic is about outdoor motion sensors which is a lot more than just PIR. it can active infrared, microwave, sonic, video and many many more.
G W Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 You did mention 'sonic' which in the context of motion sensors usually means ultrasonic... Yes, I did mention sonic which was meant to cover all sound waves. And I still don't see where anyone else alluded to it. I did forget to mention vibration and weight. B.R.I.A.D.A. Best regards, Gary Funk
stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 I did forget to mention vibration and weight. Finally, you admit to being amiss.
G W Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Finally, you admit to being amiss.No. Just adding more details. I. S. B. S. P. Best regards, Gary Funk
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Sonic pertains to sound, but ultrasonic isn't sound because humans can't hear it, thus the prefix "ultra" Look at the time. Somebody isn't getting enough sleep. "OK mommy"
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Plus there is subsonic, hypersonic etc... Let's not play favorites!
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Plus there is subsonic, hypersonic etc... Let's not play favorites! OK, below sound, above sound but they are all sonic meaning sound? hmmm..... Anyway, back to Stu's interjection (that a word?) post. I would like to hear more about utrasonic motion sensors? I haven't heard that term for about 40 years.
MWareman Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 They can be pretty common in residential systems... Because the active type are detecting a change in the echo pattern, resulting from unexpected extra objects in the room changing its 'shape'. They don't rely on changing temperatures... http://www.homesecurityguru.com/ultrasonic-motion-sensors There are disadvantages though.
stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 I'll interject (interrupt/comment) here: http://www.homesecurityguru.com/ultrasonic-motion-sensors http://www.facilitiesnet.com/lighting/article/Occupancy-Sensors-Passive-Infrared-Ultrasonic-and-Dual-Technology-Facility-Management-Lighting-Feature--9608 http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/projects/turning-on-a-light-with-ultrasonic-motion-detection/ https://ultrasonicsensor.wordpress.com/ for something more technical https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.1732.pdf and if you actually want one https://www.amazon.com/Enerlites-Technology-Occupancy-Ultrasonic-Detectors/dp/B00KWLEL98/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949681&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasonic+motion+sensor
larryllix Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 I'll interject (interrupt/comment) here: <snanippage> d if you actually want one https://www.amazon.com/Enerlites-Technology-Occupancy-Ultrasonic-Detectors/dp/B00KWLEL98/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477949681&sr=8-2&keywords=ultrasonic+motion+sensor That looks like a nice unit! For $40 youget a combo sensor with logic...iR, Usonic, or both! Too bad it wasn't Insteon too! LOL. It would be somewhat ugly in a visible (it would have to be) wall switch.
stusviews Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 I currently use Lutron in-wall motion sensors wired to Micro Modules making then Insteon devices. I'll probably try the combo if I have need for another sensor.
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