Insteon Developer - Public Outreach

[Teken]

I think its quite safe to say there hasn't been very many instances where a Insteon developer / employee has ever reached out to someone in the public forum domain.

 

Below is probably the only *Unicorn* moment in time we may see this: http://forum.smarthome.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18368

 

The person in question is Brandt who is reaching out to person who developed a free HUB II application called *Scene Flow*. I have not tried out this free application but several members have said its quite good and offers a much better interface than what is currently out there.

 

I would like to think any company would do the very same in hopes of making their product better.

 

Nobody develops better, than everybody . . . 

 

 

[Brian H]

I have seen a few of their posts. Nice to see some information.

I did see a link to a developers document in one of their posts. Hope they didn't violate any NDA's.

 

One thing the earlier Developers Group Members {that I belonged to, before it just disappeared one day} had an NDA that prevented us from divulging much information. I suspect Smathome and Smartlabs employees along with present developers. Are also still restricted by a GAG Order!

[Teken]

I have seen a few of their posts. Nice to see some information.

I did see a link to a developers document in one of their posts. Hope they didn't violate any NDA's.

 

One thing the earlier Developers Group Members {that I belonged to, before it just disappeared one day} had an NDA that prevented us from divulging much information. I suspect Smathome and Smartlabs employees along with present developers. Are also still restricted by a GAG Order!

 

Yeah I'm not really sure why they pulled the developer documents from the Insteon.net web site?!? One would think given the lack of support from third party vendors Smartlabs would be eager to share information to help speed development for their wares.

 

All of the documents I've reviewed and down loaded from the site before it was pulled was very similar to the Insteon *White Paper* simply explaining the basics to advanced theories of operations of the Insteon protocol. The only difference I noticed in the EDOC's working examples and the actual commands to invoke a feature / response.

 

For the life of me I can't understand how information placed in the public domain would hurt, hinder, or impact the product or company as a whole.

 

Sometimes it comes across to me like there is some kind of internal struggle with the powers that be with the above. Which again makes no sense considering none of it is even remotely helpful to a none developer. Besides gaining technical insight to the product and what to expect should you decide to communicate with the hardware.

 

I just don't know . . . 

[G W]

I have seen a few of their posts. Nice to see some information.

I did see a link to a developers document in one of their posts. Hope they didn't violate any NDA's.

 

One thing the earlier Developers Group Members {that I belonged to, before it just disappeared one day} had an NDA that prevented us from divulging much information. I suspect Smathome and Smartlabs employees along with present developers. Are also still restricted by a GAG Order!

I seriously doubt there is any gag order in place.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

[Teken]

I seriously doubt there is any gag order in place.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

 

What do you think a signed NDA covers, Popsicle's?

[G W]

What do you think a signed NDA covers, Popsicle's?

Are you under the impression that a NDA and a gag order are the same?

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[Teken]

Are you under the impression that a NDA and a gag order are the same?

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

I believe you're trying to confuse the issue as to what a NDA covers. In most signed NDA covenants it expressly bars a person from sharing details whether it be methods, processes, IP, R&D, etc in all forms of communications. Whether that covers all mediums such as web forums is up to the lawyers to decide.

 

This has nothing to do with *Free Speech* it has to do with companies and employees and their contractors abiding by terms of their employment or affiliation with said company.

 

A gag order is a court ordered issuance to ensure information isn't shared with other parties in hopes of reducing bias toward a plaintiff / defendant etc.

 

Regardless of the specifics a NDA inherently limits a person from communicating information that is private and guarded by the company as relevant and important to their business. 

[G W]

I'm not trying to confuse anything.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[Teken]

I'm not trying to confuse anything.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

Then carry on . . .

[G W]

Then carry on . . .

I already did.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[Teken]

I already did.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

But your still here . . . LOL

[G W]

And I still stand by my statement.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[Teken]

And I still stand by my statement.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

That is indeed your right - even if the facts prove otherwise!

[Teken]

He seems eager to help out as the last few replies are from him . . .

[G W]

That is indeed your right - even if the facts prove otherwise!

You really do think they are they are the same even after you posted that they aren't.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[larryllix]

Yeah I'm not really sure why they pulled the developer documents from the Insteon.net web site?!? One would think given the lack of support from third party vendors Smartlabs would be eager to share information to help speed development for their wares.

 

All of the documents I've reviewed and down loaded from the site before it was pulled was very similar to the Insteon *White Paper* simply explaining the basics to advanced theories of operations of the Insteon protocol. The only difference I noticed in the EDOC's working examples and the actual commands to invoke a feature / response.

 

For the life of me I can't understand how information placed in the public domain would hurt, hinder, or impact the product or company as a whole.

 

Sometimes it comes across to me like there is some kind of internal struggle with the powers that be with the above. Which again makes no sense considering none of it is even remotely helpful to a none developer. Besides gaining technical insight to the product and what to expect should you decide to communicate with the hardware.

 

I just don't know . . .

 

SH is slowly losing trust from the userbase.

It wreaks of the Steve Jobs problem with his "Total control, end to end".

 

Remember White Papers are only a conceptual idea and not what they implemented.

To release an actual API or technical description violates the "Total control, end to end" concept.

Someday the SH Steve Jobs person, will come out of his closet and stop shaking so that somebody will copy his stuff, but maybe after bankrupcy.

 

Many high-tech companies take out dozens of silly patents out to protect themselves, in the event of a threatened litigation. They have things like paragraph indentation patented, to hit back with, and make the threat go away.

 

Real high-tech developments are usually protected by fast moving developments and don't bother with serious patents, anymore. Registering a patent only allows competitors to view your techniques. That is why most of them do not represent the real technology, and are only a smoke screen.

 

Every time the idea thieves launch a copy of your idea, you just launch a newer idea that makes the old one look antiquated and ridiculous. SH doesn't do this and clings to an old idea that has proven not to work.

 

The Japanese were doing this to North America, putting TI and many other in the poor house until we got some agreement they wouldn't do it anymore. I am not sure what we had to give in exchange to get that, but it is a prime example of the falacy of our patent security system some still believe in.

 

The patent process has had it's day, and White Papers can be a technique to confuse your enemies. The lazy ones (in the closet) still attempt to use the dying system.

 

Yeah, I bet there is internal termoil inside SH. My guess is the software engineers turn over monthly.

 

I better get back to disaasembling some code for the Chinese manufacturer I work for.

[larryllix]

Is there a double gag term?

[Teken]

You really do think they are they are the same even after you posted that they aren't.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

I really have to shake my head in disbelief if you fail to understand the fundamentals of what I clearly expressed. I believe you're mistaken me for someone else on this forum who is less knowledgeable and well read. 

 

I clearly stated the difference(s) to let you know - I am fully aware of the distinctions yet you fail to either comprehend the similarities of the two.

[G W]

I'll state it one more time.

 

I seriously doubt there is a gag order.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[Teken]

I'll state it one more time.

 

I seriously doubt there is a gag order.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

No, there is not court ordered *Gag* order in place to the employee's. Yet (IF) the contractor / employee has signed a enforceable and valid NDA contract they are limited to what it states they can communicate to anyone via what ever medium.

 

I can't be any clearer on that point(s) . . .

[kohai]

I'll state it one more time.

 

I seriously doubt there is a gag order.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

 

You need more to do.  

[stusviews]

The implication in this case is that a gag order and NDA are equivalent. That's absolutely correct if you are referring to the documentation that virtually every innovative company has employees sigh as a condition of employment.

[MustangChris04]

I think if Insteon wants to move forward in this market then they'll need to be less restrictive with their SDK. I can't think of any other consumer grade smarthome/IoT company require an NDA to be signed... Maybe just a simple terms of use but their documentation would still be freely available.

[stusviews]

Most companies require an NDA. Once the product is public, the NDA becomes void. At that point it's up to the company to release or not release documentation and/or APIs. Until then (e.g, Alpha, Beta, under development), the NDA is enforced.