ELK outputs

[James Peterson]

I am trying to understand elk outputs to help integrate them into my app.  

 

What I know:

Outputs 1-64 are soft outputs and can used as physical or logical outputs depending on if added logical boards are attached.  They can also be renamed on the ELK system to have more friendlier names

 

65-192 are static outputs and can not be renamed - still not sure on most details

 

193-208 are related to keypads and power supplies - unsure of actual use.  

 

Using the API 65+ have no way of actually being set to active.

 

1) In creating an interface to controlling or interacting with an output or list of outputs, should all outputs listed in the ELK topology be displayed?

2) Should there be a way to hide specific outputs?  

 

Where can I locate more information on how outputs are handled?  

[G W]

Outputs are simple. They have two states; on and off. Expansion boards can be installed in the system, 16 outputs at a time. To handle all 208 outputs.

 

Outputs are normally set using rules (programs) to actuate door locks, motors, fans, pumps, lights, alarms, etc.

 

The ISY is capable of setting outputs 65+ and that used the API.

 

What else do you need to know?

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[G W]

On the external power supply the output operates a relay that has a NC and NO contact.

 

On the keypad the output is 13vdc at 50ma to power a LED or relay. The relay could be used to provide 24vac to a door strike to open the door.

 

If there is a physical output it's either a relay with dry contacts or 13vdc at 50ma.

 

Whether a physical output is present or not the state is set to 1 in the Elk when the output is on.

 

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[MWareman]

193-208 are related to keypads and power supplies - unsure of actual use.

 

Elk Keypads have an output that appears in this range. The specific number depends on the order keypads were enrolled.

 

The common use is to have the output drive a lock mechanism (either magnetic or mechanical) because keypads are usually installed near to entry doors. They are rarely used in residential Elk deployments.

[G W]

Elk Keypads have an output that appears in this range. The specific number depends on the order keypads were enrolled.

 

The common use is to have the output drive a lock mechanism (either magnetic or mechanical) because keypads are usually installed near to entry doors. They are rarely used in residential Elk deployments.

I'm very rare.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[James Peterson]

Let me rephrase this. I am less concerned with the actual output as I am with the display of them in the app.  I want to know if hiding them would be something useful or should I simple display them all?  

 

Since 65+ always show in the elk topology and there is no way to confirm with the API that they are in use, are uncommon enough that creating an option to hide them would be useful? 

 

in extension 193-208 would an option to hide these from view be useful?  Or only display them based on a calculation of the keypad ID Order corresponding to the appropriate output ID?

 

My question s for this are strictly interface related.  Since they are all simple toggle, it does not matter what they are used for.  I just want to create an interface appropriate for them.  

[G W]

I only need to see any output that is ON.

 

However, there needs to be a method to turn on an Output.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[MWareman]

Honestly, I suspect most people use very few outputs. I would default them all to hidden, unless the name has been modified or the output is on, in which case default it visible. Allow the user to toggle visibility.

 

An 'Output' is binary. However, I may want to assign different names to the states. 'Open/'Close', 'On/Off', 'Safe/Energized' and many others. Allow us to change the states.

 

The other thing, I have some 'Outputs' that I turn on to trigger an Elk rule, rather than provide state feedback. This should be an option as well. There should be three possible statuses in Agave for variables.... 'Hidden', 'Visible / Toggle' and 'Visible / Momentary'. The last might be a simple button in the app, labeled by the user. 'Garage Door' would be one I would use (in my case it's output 60-something, it triggers an Elk program that turns output 3 on for a short period of time, then turns off outputs 3 and 60-something). Output 3 is connected to a garage door remote.)

[James Peterson]

 

 

Honestly, I suspect most people use very few outputs. I would default them all to hidden, unless the name has been modified or the output is on, in which case default it visible. Allow the user to toggle visibility.

 

An 'Output' is binary. However, I may want to assign different names to the states. 'Open/'Close', 'On/Off', 'Safe/Energized' and many others. Allow us to change the states.

 

The other thing, I have some 'Outputs' that I turn on to trigger an Elk rule, rather than provide state feedback. This should be an option as well. There should be three possible statuses in Agave for variables.... 'Hidden', 'Visible / Toggle' and 'Visible / Momentary'. The last might be a simple button in the app, labeled by the user. 'Garage Door' would be one I would use (in my case it's output 60-something, it triggers an Elk program that turns output 3 on for a short period of time, then turns off outputs 3 and 60-something). Output 3 is connected to a garage door remote.)

Variables? Are you still talking elk or actual variable.

 

I have just about finished some variable stuff but I didn't include a momentary option or an option to hide. Just a thought, if you are referring to variables, where would you prefer to go to unhide?

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[G W]

INFORMATION: The Elk M1 has 16 outputs built in.

1 is for a speaker

2 is a siren

3 is a NO/NC relay

4,5,6 don't exist

7 to 16 are 13vdv at 50ma connections

 

7 to 10 are for listen in if the audio expansion is installed.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[MWareman]

Variables? Are you still talking elk or actual variable.

 

I have just about finished some variable stuff but I didn't include a momentary option or an option to hide. Just a thought, if you are referring to variables, where would you prefer to go to unhide?

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Variable? I didnt refer to them. I was talking about Elk outputs....

 

Michael.

[James Peterson]

Variable? I didnt refer to them. I was talking about Elk outputs....

 

Michael.

OK.  the statement "There should be three possible statuses in Agave for variables" threw me off.  

[MWareman]

OK. the statement "There should be three possible statuses in Agave for variables" threw me off.

Why, I see. Autocorrect, although for the life of me I cannot figure out what I meant...

[apostolakisl]

All accurate stuff.

 

You should have an option to view all the outputs and you should load the names for the first 64.  It would be very convenient to be able to hide outputs that aren't in use at the user's discretion.  I would default to hiding all of them and let the person config it to un-hide the ones they use.  But I would not neglect any of the outputs since as mentioned keypad outputs (the top end of the numbers) may very well be used to control a door lock.  Output 1 and 2 probably would be best left off as it makes no sense to display those.

 

Personally, I use quite a few outputs.  I have 48 on my system (minus the ones that don't exist).

 

It is common for people to use the state of a "phantom" output as a flag in programming.  Where a phantom output is any output that doesn't have an expansion board attached so it can in fact not actually control anything.  I would expect that people would probably hide those outputs, but maybe not.

 

Not that it matters, but the mother board has a single built-in relay (output 3) as well as 8 high/low voltage outputs that you can plug an 8 relay expansion board into.  Starting at 17, you need to buy expansion boards that use the rs485 data com to add 8 more voltage outputs and 8 more relays at a time.  The voltage outputs on that expansion board can also have an 8 relay board plugged into it for 16 total relays.  This process continues until you use all outputs supported by the firmware.

 

At the most basic, you would want a toggle on/off control for each output.  To be fancy, you would add the option to turn on for x seconds or minutes.  For example, I have Elk outputs run my sprinkler system.  So maybe I would like to turn a zone on for 10 minutes without having to manually toggle it off at the end of 10 minutes. 

 

EDIT:  The motherboard actually has 10 high/low voltage outputs, but 7 and 8 pass through the 8 relay expansion board as two more high/low voltage outputs with screw down terminals.