How To Update Motion Detectors Without Pressing Set Button

[HABit]

Most of you know that when you install a motion detector (2842, etc) you have to press the set button to both link it to the PLM/ISY and also when you need to make configuration changes, such as darkness detect level, or retrigger time, etc. You can't avoid the first set button press to initially link the device, but you can setup an automatic update program to take the pain out of getting the ladder and risk breaking off the very fragile stem from the mounting bracket since it always seems hard to disengage (HINT: A little silicon grease spray such as used for window rollers helps lots).

 

Here are the steps:

 

1. First be sure to jumper the remote management jumper (#5 on the very right end), which should be installed by default from the factory.
2. Click the Automatic Writes To Battery Powered Devices item under the File menu if it is not already grayed out (or click the icon usually located on the far right of the Tool Bar, if not moved, and make sure it is grayed out). To ensure you got the right option changed, hover your mouse over either the Tool Bar button, or menu item and look at the pop up context help message. It should say something like: "Do not include battery powered device...".
3. Create the following program:

​Program UpdateMD

​IF

  Control XYZ:MotionDet is switched On

 

​THEN

  Wait 5 seconds        ; Let the motion detector finish sending its notification, may need to increase time if it is controlling a scene with a few devices

  Set XYZ:MotionDet Write Device Updates

 

 

If you are not making updates to a motion detector, you can disable this program to avoid unnecessarily running the program.

I leave mine on since even though you theoretically utilize the available writing lifetime of the EPROM in the motion detector, in reality it would probably exceed several lifetimes before it was depleted (far shorter than the lifespan of the capacitors used in the device).

Edited December 31, 2016 by SeeGreen

[Teken]

It should be noted the users will see varied success using the *Write Device* Update feature. It depends upon the hardware & firmware in place a user has. A wait from 0-3 seconds is (typical) to be seen and used on various battery operated devices. The write device update does not work on all battery operated devices like older Remote Lincs, Remote Linc 2.

 

Lastly, if the battery operated device has a *Heart Beat* node you can use this as the (IF) condition for the following hardware: Leak Sensor, Hidden Door Sensor, Open-Close Sensor.

[stusviews]

Leaving the Motion Sensor program enabled uses a considerable amount of energy and will noticeably shorten the battery life. Sending an On of Off is instantaneous, updating takes some time. All that time the battery is being used.

 

All my sensor update programs are disabled for that reason.

[HABit]

The reason this trick works (per Teken "on most motion detectors", however on all of mine-insteon it has worked reliably), is that when the motion detector issues its motion notification message, it then goes into the receive mode to listen for the acknowledgement. The return message time period is boilerplate - much more than needed for a typical acknowledgement. It's during this "receiver on, waiting for acknowledgement message period" that the motion detector will hear the configuration change message the Update program issues via the "Write Device Updates", and accept your configuration changes. This is actually a small flaw (or actually lazy programming) that allows this hack to work. After a notification message is transmitted the firmware author turns on the receiver for a set time rather than sensing when the ACK message is received and then immediately shutting down the receiver. You waste a minuscule amount of battery power, but hey you can also update your MD without that darn ladder. 

 

Folks, I can't speak for other types of devices. I came up with this hack b/c I hate to fish out the ladder and drag it to the MD (that's always stuck on the mounting bracket). Theoretically it could work on remotes and other battery operated devices, but I haven't tested on such.

[stusviews]

I use write updates for leak sensors, door sensors and open/close as well as motion sensors. My first use was when I replaced the PLM. I haven't tried with remotes because they're easily placed in linking mode.

[HABit]

What would greatly improve this technique and extend battery life is if the ISY either did not arbitrarily send the configuration information to a battery device if nothing is pending/changed, or to add a new command something like:

"Write Pending Device Updates"

 

The ISY does seem to have enough current information to make implementation of these changes without having to add more status regarding battery devices. You can already see on the Device Tree in the Admin Console, the status icon changes to a green box, right-pointing arrow to indicate that there are pending configuration changes.

 

@Stu: Have you measured the difference in battery life if updates are always written to a battery device? I'm curious to know what the additional battery drain is. The only appreciable increase on battery drain is when the transmitter is switched on for the handshaking with the updates message. When/If I get time I want to drag out the spectrum analyzer and see when the LO is cranked up to get an idea of the difference in transmitter operation. I suppose this also could be approximately determined from analyzing the message protocols - what is transmitted in response.

[maxnorth]

I do not understand step 2 in your instructions. I do not have that option in my File menu in the Admin console.

[HABit]

Probably the easiest way for you to locate this system setting is to hover your mouse pointer over the toolbar buttons located at the top of the Admin Console, just under the menu. As the mouse pointer lingers over a button, a pop-up description will appear describing what the button's function is and what mode/state it is currently set to (as applicable). Look for the button that says something about battery powered devices and writing changes. You want that button to be clicked so that it appears grayed-out (won't show as a colored icon). The pop-up description window will appear even if the toolbar button is in the disabled/grayed-out state.

 

You should go to the About window (menu Help-->About) and post what your ISY model, version and UI rev is.

[larryllix]

What would greatly improve this technique and extend battery life is if the ISY either did not arbitrarily send the configuration information to a battery device if nothing is pending/changed, or to add a new command something like:

"Write Pending Device Updates"

 

The ISY does seem to have enough current information to make implementation of these changes without having to add more status regarding battery devices. You can already see on the Device Tree in the Admin Console, the status icon changes to a green box, right-pointing arrow to indicate that there are pending configuration changes.

 

@Stu: Have you measured the difference in battery life if updates are always written to a battery device? I'm curious to know what the additional battery drain is. The only appreciable increase on battery drain is when the transmitter is switched on for the handshaking with the updates message. When/If I get time I want to drag out the spectrum analyzer and see when the LO is cranked up to get an idea of the difference in transmitter operation. I suppose this also could be approximately determined from analyzing the message protocols - what is transmitted in response.

This cannot be measured as the battery devices are not capable of being "open for business" continously.

[larryllix]

I do not understand step 2 in your instructions. I do not have that option in my File menu in the Admin console.

That was only available to Pro users. I am not sure if that still applies.

[stusviews]

What would greatly improve this technique and extend battery life is if the ISY either did not arbitrarily send the configuration information to a battery device if nothing is pending/changed, or to add a new command something like:

"Write Pending Device Updates"

 

The ISY does seem to have enough current information to make implementation of these changes without having to add more status regarding battery devices. You can already see on the Device Tree in the Admin Console, the status icon changes to a green box, right-pointing arrow to indicate that there are pending configuration changes.

 

@Stu: Have you measured the difference in battery life if updates are always written to a battery device? I'm curious to know what the additional battery drain is. The only appreciable increase on battery drain is when the transmitter is switched on for the handshaking with the updates message. When/If I get time I want to drag out the spectrum analyzer and see when the LO is cranked up to get an idea of the difference in transmitter operation. I suppose this also could be approximately determined from analyzing the message protocols - what is transmitted in response.

 

As long as the battery use is above zero, it matters.

 

BTW, my name doesn't include @. Not anywhere.

[larryllix]

The @XXXX is a standard forum trigger to alert the intended XXXX victim. I don't think it works in this forum.

[Teken]

I do not understand step 2 in your instructions. I do not have that option in my File menu in the Admin console.

 

I don't believe anyone answered your specific question so the following reply attempts to offer that insight.

 

- The delay battery write is only available if you have a Pro controller. Which you can always upgrade a none pro to a pro simply by purchasing the upgrade. This feature has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

I have included a image capture so you know what is being discussed and called out.

 

- Write Device Update: This feature is found in the *Programs* tab. You need only create a new program and select the *Write Device Update* in the (THEN) program line. I have appended a image capture which offers a little more insight for those devices which use a *Heart Beat*.

 

High lighted in green is the (IF) program line. You will notice I included both On-Off heart beat states because older hardware actually sent a OFF instead of a ON heart beat signal every 24 hours.

 

This behavior may be seen in the HDS, Open-Close sensors . . .

 

High lighted in Purple as noted up above if you decide to use the write device update feature you may need to play with the wait command which is directly related to the firmware in place for the hardware in use. A wait of 0-3 seconds has been noted as offering the most success.

 

YMMV so play with it . . .

 

Lastly, high lighted in Red is where you will find the Write Device Update under the THEN program section.

 

Lastly, this feature does not work on all Insteon hardware depending upon manufacture date and firmware on board.

[maxnorth]

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation, Taken.  This is now working for me.

[Teken]

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation, Taken.  This is now working for me.

 

Good to hear!

 

BWT: I am sure auto spell / auto correct made it *Taken* instead of Teken . . . As I have not taken anything from you but offered insight.

 

LOL . . .

[HABit]

Perhaps I offended some of you on this blog by using the incorrect response protocol. The offense was inadvertant. It would be helpful, however, to point out that your prefference is to use the cute little box to repeat the same statements again, rather than to devolve into snark.

 

There was no intent at victimization here. Anyone taking offense to the dialog above did so entirely at their own volition. When someone makes a statement I want to understand the basis for it (and I'm sure others do too). There is/was no intent to discredit your expertise.

 

Thanks Teken for the amplification and taking the time to do what I suppose I should have done using pictorials etc. My intent was to try to pass on some (admitted hack) to others but I have to admit my available time is limited so I just wrote it out in a hurry.

 

I'll take in account the response I have received before I post anything else in this forum.

 

Happy New Year!

[Teken]

Perhaps I offended some of you on this blog by using the incorrect response protocol. The offense was inadvertant. It would be helpful, however, to point out that your prefference is to use the cute little box to repeat the same statements again, rather than to devolve into snark.

 

There was no intent at victimization here. Anyone taking offense to the dialog above did so entirely at their own volition. When someone makes a statement I want to understand the basis for it (and I'm sure others do too). There is/was no intent to discredit your expertise.

 

Thanks Teken for the amplification and taking the time to do what I suppose I should have done using pictorials etc. My intent was to try to pass on some (admitted hack) to others but I have to admit my available time is limited so I just wrote it out in a hurry.

 

I'll take in account the response I have received before I post anything else in this forum.

 

Happy New Year!

 

No worries, I simply noted the other members question wasn't fully answered and wanted to offer that insight. Like many here I learn by doing and often times finding a image capture relays the information much better than plain writings. As I recall in school for *Health Class* it was expressed to me the vast population (90%) have what they call *Physical Brains* vs *Spacial Brains*

 

Physical brains are those who learn by doing using their hands and completing repetitive tasks etc. Spacial brains which accounts for 10% of the population are able to simply read, see, hear, information and retain and apply said information with out the need to do - said tasks.

 

As such I too am a physical brain and must see, do, practice what I read, hear, and see. Thus, I always try to offer as much written detail and complement my replies with images in hopes of relaying the very same for all brains to see and use!

 

I would not take any offence by the previous posters as much is offered in gist.

 

You will quickly find some of the members have zero sense of humor while others have a really odd sense of humor. I on the other hand have a great sense of humor but freely admit I sometimes fail to use the appropriate emoticon to relay my over all inflection / tone.

 

Happy New Years! 

[PhanTomiZ]

I don't believe anyone answered your specific question so the following reply attempts to offer that insight.

 

- The delay battery write is only available if you have a Pro controller. Which you can always upgrade a none pro to a pro simply by purchasing the upgrade. This feature has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

I have included a image capture so you know what is being discussed and called out.

 

- Write Device Update: This feature is found in the *Programs* tab. You need only create a new program and select the *Write Device Update* in the (THEN) program line. I have appended a image capture which offers a little more insight for those devices which use a *Heart Beat*.

 

High lighted in green is the (IF) program line. You will notice I included both On-Off heart beat states because older hardware actually sent a OFF instead of a ON heart beat signal every 24 hours.

 

This behavior may be seen in the HDS, Open-Close sensors . . .

 

High lighted in Purple as noted up above if you decide to use the write device update feature you may need to play with the wait command which is directly related to the firmware in place for the hardware in use. A wait of 0-3 seconds has been noted as offering the most success.

 

YMMV so play with it . . .

 

Lastly, high lighted in Red is where you will find the Write Device Update under the THEN program section.

 

Lastly, this feature does not work on all Insteon hardware depending upon manufacture date and firmware on board.

 

Hi,

 

I too looked for this function, but couldn't find it as I don't have the Pro Version...

 

Glad, I saw this post.  It saves me much running up/down ladders and stairs, in and out doors,etc...

 

I understand the reasoning to write updates to the MS as they have options like "Time out" & "LED Brightness" etc., but why would one "Write Updates" to devices that don't have options like leak sensors, open/close sensors, HDS etc.? 

 

I currently use the generic HB programs for all my open/close and leak sensors to notify me of a missed heartbeat. 

 

Thanks

PhanTomiz

[Teken]

Hi,

 

I too looked for this function, but couldn't find it as I don't have the Pro Version...

 

Glad, I saw this post.  It saves me much running up/down ladders and stairs, in and out doors,etc...

 

I understand the reasoning to write updates to the MS as they have options like "Time out" & "LED Brightness" etc., but why would one "Write Updates" to devices that don't have options like leak sensors, open/close sensors, HDS etc.? 

 

I currently use the generic HB programs for all my open/close and leak sensors to notify me of a missed heartbeat. 

 

Thanks

PhanTomiz

 

In my view there are at least two reasons to use this feature.

 

- Replacement of the 2413S PLM

- Changes to scene membership

 

As noted up above (IF) a device supports and has a *Heart Beat* node this channel can be used as a means of updating a remote device in the home. The only down side to using the heart beat node is this assumes the persons Insteon RF to Power line mesh is strong through out the entire home.

 

Lastly, the end user obviously needs to wait for the 24 heart beat to happen before any pending writes will happen. In my eyes this is just another great way to complete the same physical task. Speaking only for myself having not to scale a 25 foot ladder in -45'C with howling winds is a major plus or where a piece of hardware is located in a restricted area.

 

Make sense?

 

NOTE: The HDS does indeed offer options from voltage, heart beat, to dual modes etc.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Teken

[PhanTomiZ]

In my view there are at least two reasons to use this feature.

 

- Replacement of the 2413S PLM

- Changes to scene membership

 

As noted up above (IF) a device supports and has a *Heart Beat* node this channel can be used as a means of updating a remote device in the home. The only down side to using the heart beat node is this assumes the persons Insteon RF to Power line mesh is strong through out the entire home.

 

Lastly, the end user obviously needs to wait for the 24 heart beat to happen before any pending writes will happen. In my eyes this is just another great way to complete the same physical task. Speaking only for myself having not to scale a 25 foot ladder in -45'C with howling winds is a major plus or where a piece of hardware is located in a restricted area.

 

Make sense?

 

NOTE: The HDS does indeed offer options from voltage, heart beat, to dual modes etc.

 

Sure makes sense.  I'm glad I haven't had to replace/repair my PLM and I didn't even think of scene membership.

 

Didn't know about the HDS;  I don't have any.

 

So, should I be adding Write Device Updates to my LS HB programs?  

 

 

Leak Sensor Base Bath HB - [iD 004D][Parent 0129]

 

If

        Control 'Furnace RM / Devices / Leak Sensor Base Bath - Dry / Leak Sensor Base Bath-HB' is switched On

     Or Control 'Furnace RM / Devices / Leak Sensor Base Bath - Dry / Leak Sensor Base Bath-HB' is switched Off

 

Then

        Wait  25 hours

         Send Notification to 'Default' content 'Default Subject'

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[Teken]

I have personally created a separate folder in the programs tab which includes all of the various battery operated devices in my home. I did this as Stu mentioned this allows me to manage and decide when this process should be invoked to reduce battery consumption.

 

You also don't want to be walking around your house wondering why the MS is always flashing. This feature when invoked will (to the lay person) mimic what a bad comm LED flash would look like. Meaning if you had it turned on and every time the MS saw movement it will flash the LED several times.

 

A lay person would be wondering what is happening or assume incorrectly there is an error / comm issue present. Obviously, if the MS is flashing the LED all the time this impacts long term service life.

 

Clear as mud? 

[PhanTomiZ]

Got it...Thanks again...

[TrojanHorse]

This seems like a great trick / "hack"

I have a leak sensor that I recently put behind a dishwasher after I needed to take it out and replace a hose. Figured I'd be good for several years but then I replaced my PLM and thought I would have to take the dishwasher back out.

This will be great to use when the ISY gets the heartbeat from the leak sensor, and then I will probably disable or delete that program so it's not writing updates every 24 hours as that is unnecessary for me.

I love that I always learn something new here!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrojanHorse]

I'm getting around to this...

Each leak sensor I have (v.43) shows 3 nodes - dry, wet, heartbeat.

 

I understand I should monitor the heartbeat to trigger this program, but then do I write updates to all 3 nodes? Or can I pick one? Or have some delay between writing to all 3 nodes?

 

Edit: seeing post 13 on this thread from Teken showing use of the dry node. That would have been my guess... can someone confirm for posterity that you only need to include this node for the leak sensor?

 

Thanks

Edited February 20, 2017 by TrojanHorse

[Teken]

You need only select the one node to complete this task.

 

 

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