Suddenly lost all communication with all insteon devices.

[holyhell5]

Setup:

I'm running a 994i ZW with firmware 4.5.4.    PLM version v9E.   I have 14 insteon devices and 4 z-wave devices.

 

Issue:

My setup has been running perfectly since i first built it out a couple months ago.   Last week i came home and none of my programs were working.   ISY reports "cannot communicate with <DEVICE> check connection"  for ALL insteon devices.  All z-wave devices continue to work fine.  ISY shows "Connected" to the PLM

 

Nothing shows up in the event viewer when I generate insteon traffic with any of my switches.   I have one switch configured to flash LED during communications and when I try to control or write updates to any insteon device from my ISY that comms LED does not blink at all.  

 

I can still link insteon controller to insteon responder i.e. mini keypad can link to a dimmer switch and controls it no problem.  

 

I had no success trying other solutions from this forum including recycle ISY/PLM and  reset/restore PLM and devices.  I went even further and bought a new brand new PLM and tried a restore...no luck.  Today i went full desperate mode and did a factory reset on the ISY, the PLM and EVERY INSTEON DEVICE in my home I still cannot get the ISY to communicate.   Always the same issue: when I put my ISY into link mode i hear the PLM chirp but when I go and hold SET on any device that device just goes into its own link mode with a flashing LED as if the PLM doesnt exist and ISY doesnt see any activity.

 

To be absolutely thorough I tried moving the PLM to 3 other circuits in the house and even air-gapped all insteon devices then tried reconnecting and linking them 1-by-1 and still zero communication to the ISY.   

 

I am usually a decent troubleshooter but I am at a loss here.  All signs point to PLM but I just put in a brand new and started over from scratch in terms of software with no effect.  The only thing i havent ruled out is the ISY itself

 

 

 

[Techman]

Start at this link for troubleshooting

 

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_No_Status_Feedback_From_Devices

 

 

Hopefully you didn't do a delete PLM before replacing the PLM? 

 

Did you follow these replace PLM instructions below?

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/420-how-to-replacerestoreremove-plm/

[holyhell5]

After replacing my PLM i tried the restore. Im sure one of the hail-mary plays i tried was to delete PRM.  After going through every troubleshooting step i could find I literally went to every switch and device and did an air-gap factory reset.   by that i mean pulling the setting button out to make an air-gap then pressing in and holding until the tone stops.  Every device in my house is now back to square-one and my isy and brand new PLM still cant communicate. 

[paulbates]

This is one where I would fill out a support request and UDI will set up a call with you. UDI is really responsive and will get to the bottom of it

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/contact-support/

[Teken]

If you made a good back up you can try performing restore ISY.

[holyhell5]

OK so this is strange.   After literally exhausting all troubleshooting steps and factory resetting the ISY and all insteon devices I kind of gave up.   My last attempt  was to restore my ISY from the latest good backup, then restore PLM and again nothing was working, no communication traffic in the event viewer or on my device LEDs.   Today I log into my ISY to put together a support ticket to UDI and my devices are all communicating perfectly fine with the ISY!   Everything works again  

The only thing I can think of that changed was that one of my insteon dimmer switches blew out when I shorted a circuit i was working on and I replaced it with a new switch.   Now that I think about it that switch was peculiar.  I have 10 other switches installed and for some reason, that switch fresh out of the box, without linking to anything, would flash the red status LED 6 times every time I manually turned it off but not when I turned it on.    Couldn't find any documentation online about what that LED behavior indicated and since the switch was working I just ignored it.

 

Maybe its possible that I accidentally destroyed a faulty device, thus removing some underlying communication corruption.   I don't know if that makes sense or is even possible but hey, i'm back online so I am happy.

[Brian H]

New modules are known to sometimes ship with test links in them.

Red flashing is usually can't communicate with a linked address.

You may find this mentioned in the modules full users manual. Look for Error Blink as it can be disables through software but defaults to On.

 

Most users here now do a Factory Reset on all new modules before using them.

To remove any test links that should have been removed before shipping.

[holyhell5]

OK, update on this issue.   It's happening again.   I went from a perfectly functional network to all Insteon devices not communicating with the PLM.  It happened after I installed a new ceiling fan with a fan control module.  I went through the same steps again....Reboot ISY,  power cycle PLM, reset/restore PLM, restore ISY from backup.  Still zero insteon communication.    

 

Next logical step was to disconnect that new fan and controller in case it was somehow disrupting insteon traffic.   As I was tripping breakers trying to find the one feeding the fan I tripped one that instantly fixed my network (not the fan breaker mind you).   Insteon comms were back and my ISY was controlling all of the devices that still had power.   Of course the logical conclusion is that one of the insteon devices on that breaker is wrecking my insteon network.  I turned said breaker back on and as expected comms died again.  One by one I air gapped each insteon device that was on that breaker but after disconnecting the last insteon device the problem persisted.  

 

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what is on this circuit that is new or newly powered-on but its just standard-switched lights, garage door opener and a couple of standard outlets.  I'll keep doing my trial and error and update when I find the cause but if anyone else is having complete insteon communication loss like this thread try shutting down breakers one at a time until the PLM starts talking to devices again.  

 

I just kept tripping a breaker then right clicking any dead device (not on that cold circuit of course) and selected Write Updates to Device to test.   Watcg the event viewer on level 3 to see any successful comms

 

[stusviews]

If turning a breaker off solved the communication problem, then the odds are that it's something other than an Insteon device causing the problem. Disconnect and/or unplug everything on that circuit. Turning a device off is inadequate, it must be disconnected or unplugged. Connect or plug things in one at time until the problem recurs. That device needs a filter.

[holyhell5]

Ok I'll try that. Unfortunately this house had some big additions since it was built and it turns out that particular breaker has been used for MANY long and silly runs that make no sense. Gonna take some work to figure out everything on that circuit but I'm on it. Thanks. I'll report back

[stusviews]

While your at it, you may want to keep a record of which breaker controls which outlets, lights and switches

[Brian H]

Taking the time to do a circuit map can be a big help sometimes.

I did one in my house and didn't originally think it would ever be helpful.

I was incorrect. It has helped a few times.

[holyhell5]

I found the culprit that was wrecking my insteon communication and it was not what I expected but it explains the very sporadic, intermittent episodes where all comms from the PLM were not getting acknowledge:

 

So I have a 4-bulb ceiling light in my garage with a builtin motion sensor switch (not insteon) and its also wired through normal dumb light switch.  When that dumb switch is on, instean is dead.  Turn that switch off, Insteon is back!.  

 

Knowing an old fashioned SPST light switch cant be the cause I investigated the ceiling light and my mind is completely blown now.  This light only messes with insteon when the built in motion detector is triggered and the bulbs are lit.

 

 So to rule out the bulbs themselves one by one I unscrewed a bulb and tested comms.  After unscrewing the 2nd bulb out of the 4 my insteon system worked agian.  Turns two of these little [censored] were feeding back some sort of serious noise that killed my network.     the bulbs are 6000K dimmable E25 LEDs made by Lohas.   Im replacing them all with incandescents which goes against every bone in my body but hey,  atleast my insteon network is back

 

Moral of the story: if all insteon communications suddenly die ask yourself "what LED lightbulbs have I installed recently" as one of your trouble shooting steps

 

 

 

 

 

[Teken]

I found the culprit that was wrecking my insteon communication and it was not what I expected but it explains the very sporadic, intermittent episodes where all comms from the PLM were not getting acknowledge:

 

So I have a 4-bulb ceiling light in my garage with a builtin motion sensor switch (not insteon) and its also wired through normal dumb light switch.  When that dumb switch is on, instean is dead.  Turn that switch off, Insteon is back!.  

 

Knowing an old fashioned SPST light switch cant be the cause I investigated the ceiling light and my mind is completely blown now.  This light only messes with insteon when the built in motion detector is triggered and the bulbs are lit.

 

 So to rule out the bulbs themselves one by one I unscrewed a bulb and tested comms.  After unscrewing the 2nd bulb out of the 4 my insteon system worked agian.  Turns two of these little [censored] were feeding back some sort of serious noise that killed my network.     the bulbs are 6000K dimmable E25 LEDs made by Lohas.   Im replacing them all with incandescents which goes against every bone in my body but hey,  atleast my insteon network is back

 

Moral of the story: if all insteon communications suddenly die ask yourself "what LED lightbulbs have I installed recently" as one of your trouble shooting steps

 

I would be very curious to learn if you take that LED bulb and place it in a portable light fixture and just watch it. Do you see any visual faults in the output? If not when you start to dim it do you see any flicker, pulsing, strobing etc? Also, when the light is set to 100% do you hear any noise whether it be buzzing, humming, undulating pulsing?

 

Lastly, if you have a portable AM / FM radio that has a analog dial to change the frequency can you turn it to the AM position. Report back what you hear from the radio when the LED is set to 5~100% dim levels.

[Brian H]

Good troubleshooting. Though it sounds like it was a long process to find.

 

I have had some LED bulbs that emitted RF signals. That made my FM radios in the house start making noise and blocking out some stations.

 

Other electronic devices also can cause all kinds of issues.

Though related to X10 120KHz power line signals. This also could effect for the Insteon 131.65KHz power line signals.

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cellet_noise.pdf