Considering adding an Elk system to my ISY.

[rig doctor]

I have an extensive Insteon with ISY system in my home. Working flawlessly for three years. I want to add the Elk security but have a few questions.

 

1. Are the motion sensors wired to the Elk?

 

2. If they are wired, how many motion sensors can I add?

 

3. What kind of standard smoke detector will work with Elk and will that be wired or wireless?

 

I'm sure I will have more questions as I get closer. These are the few that are a concern at this point.

[stusviews]

1 & 2. There are both wired and wireless sensors available. AFAIK, there's no practical limit.

 

3. The Elk-6050 smoke detector is wireless.

[rig doctor]

Thanks for the quick response! The wired motion detectors will make upkeep a lot easier, no batteries to change.

Thanks again.

[TomG]

The basic M1 comes with 16 zones, but up to 12 extenders can be added for a total of 208.

Elk sells their own brand of wireless devices, but any aftermarket devices need to be wired, and it's extremely flexible and pretty much any aftermarket device will work. I also understand that the wired motion detectors used with the M1 are much more responsive than the wireless ones used with the ISY. You just need the Elk module to make them available.

 

I've had my system for about a year and its solid. Looking to connect the ISY to it shortly.

 

Tom

[MWareman]

I will add, using the Elk wireless motion is (in my case) next to useless for occupancy sensing. I need to pull a wire and switch it out for a wired one for it to do double duty as alarm and also provide occupancy for ISY triggering.

[apostolakisl]

Having an Elk, ISY, and motion sensors myself, I can say that the above wraps it up pretty well.  My motion sensors are hardwired to the Elk.  Hardwired motion sensors are pretty generic so there is no getting trapped into some brand.

 

And of course the Elk module for ISY is a very functional piece of software that I highly recommend.

[rig doctor]

Thanks for the information!

I plan to use wired motion sensors and will use lots of the for occupancy sensors. I have Insteon wireless sensors now attached to the ISY and it works fine but tired of replacing batteries.

I am pretty familiar with ISY programming and am assuming that I can do all of the programming of the ELK with the ISY??

 

Another question about the ELK, can I use cellular outgoing calls for monitoring or is a land line my only option?

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks for the information!

I plan to use wired motion sensors and will use lots of the for occupancy sensors. I have Insteon wireless sensors now attached to the ISY and it works fine but tired of replacing batteries.

I am pretty familiar with ISY programming and am assuming that I can do all of the programming of the ELK with the ISY??

 

Another question about the ELK, can I use cellular outgoing calls for monitoring or is a land line my only option?

You can use internet as primary and cell as a backup if you like. Or cell as only option. If you go with Alarm Relay as your monitoring company (if your in the US) they offer a cell device for $180 that you can hookup direct to the Elk. That's the easiest way to go.

[tgutwin]

Thanks for the information!

I plan to use wired motion sensors and will use lots of the for occupancy sensors. I have Insteon wireless sensors now attached to the ISY and it works fine but tired of replacing batteries.

I am pretty familiar with ISY programming and am assuming that I can do all of the programming of the ELK with the ISY??

 

Another question about the ELK, can I use cellular outgoing calls for monitoring or is a land line my only option?

The ISY programming is sooo much better than the ELK's. I programmed a few small things in my ELK when I first set things up, but  have not found anything that I have had to go back to the elk to program.

I have many many programs that seamlessly reach into my ELK.

 

BTW: I also have both wireless Insteon and wired ELK motion sensors. Both work, but I wish I had wired in more ELK ones.  No biggie though.

 

These 2 systems are beautiful together.

tom

tom

[jasont]

You can use internet as primary and cell as a backup if you like. Or cell as only option. If you go with Alarm Relay as your monitoring company (if your in the US) they offer a cell device for $180 that you can hookup direct to the Elk. That's the easiest way to go.

 

 

Do you have any insight as to Alarm Relay's service rates when using the Internet or cell to report alarms?  Looks like their "$8.95/month rate" is only for landlines?  Really hoping to replace my SimpliSafe system with an ELK in the upcoming months.  Will send you a PM when that time gets closer.  

[Scottmichaelj]

Do you have any insight as to Alarm Relay's service rates when using the Internet or cell to report alarms? Looks like their "$8.95/month rate" is only for landlines? Really hoping to replace my SimpliSafe system with an ELK in the upcoming months. Will send you a PM when that time gets closer.

I would call them directly. They charge a one time setup then it renews yearly after that. Still under $20 per month. IIRC my last bill was $131 for the year with internet connection and cell backup. BUT I also was paying an extra $10 to ATT for the cell backup. Others here have gone with T-Mobile and prepaid plans which seems the cheapest but I don't get a good signal from T-mobile where I live

 

Edit: Feel free to look at my posts here (I haven't updated my T-Mobile results though)

 

Dual-Path Alarm Communicator(GSM Version)

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=23986&share_tid=19644&url=http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/19644-Dual-Path-Alarm-Communicator%28GSM-Version%29&share_type=t

[jasont]

I would call them directly. They charge a one time setup then it renews yearly after that.

 

 

Thanks, just emailed them (Alarm Relay):

 

$60 one-time setup, then $8.95/month for internet monitoring, or $23.95/month for cellular (C1M1) monitoring.

 

Will have to put some thought into if the cellular is worth the extra $15/month. 

[TrojanHorse]

Thanks, just emailed them (Alarm Relay):

 

$60 one-time setup, then $8.95/month for internet monitoring, or $23.95/month for cellular (C1M1) monitoring.

 

Will have to put some thought into if the cellular is worth the extra $15/month.

If you don't need the C1M1 you can use their cellular dial capture device and it's cheaper for cell monitoring if you use this device. I believe this uses the Verizon network, so you will need to be able to receive their service at your location. It works for my needs and is reasonably priced.

 

https://www.alarmrelay.com/product/cbat/

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

voip works with alarm relay along with google voice and an obi unit with the "alarm" box checked on the google voice.  I have used both regular land line based internet service and cellular internet service in this configuration and both work perfectly.  I have both of my panels do nightly test calls and have never had a failure.  Aside from a few up front purchases, this setup has no monthly recurring fees (aside from alarm relay of course).

[MWareman]

voip works with alarm relay along with google voice and an obi unit with the "alarm" box checked on the google voice. I have used both regular land line based internet service and cellular internet service in this configuration and both work perfectly. I have both of my panels do nightly test calls and have never had a failure. Aside from a few up front purchases, this setup has no monthly recurring fees (aside from alarm relay of course).

VoIP as a backup to Internet reporting does not work for the purpose of backup. If your Internet is down, so is VoIP. The whole point is to have redundant paths.

 

I use Asterisk and am completely VoIP as a primary. However, I have a LTE cell interface as a backup as well (T-Mobile - I have a grandfathered prepay plan that runs me about $3 a month on average)

[apostolakisl]

VoIP as a backup to Internet reporting does not work for the purpose of backup. If your Internet is down, so is VoIP. The whole point is to have redundant paths.

 

I use Asterisk and am completely VoIP as a primary. However, I have a LTE cell interface as a backup as well (T-Mobile - I have a grandfathered prepay plan that runs me about $3 a month on average)

I wasn't really addressing backup, but voip over cellular internet is my only connection.  I have never had cellular go down nor have I ever seen google voice go down.  I suppose it could.  But what are the odds of that happening at the same time as I have an alarm?  I have setup a system that for 5 years has been 100%.  I don't really feel like a backup serves any purpose.  There are no wires that someone could cut outside, it has power backup, and is way sufficient for the level of security my home and office warrant.  If I had gold bullion stacked up in my living room, I might say different.

[jasont]

If you don't need the C1M1 you can use their cellular dial capture device and it's cheaper for cell monitoring if you use this device. I believe this uses the Verizon network, so you will need to be able to receive their service at your location. It works for my needs and is reasonably priced.

 

 

Alarm Relay quoted $16.95/month for monitoring with their CBAT (cellular dial capture device).  So $8/month extra for cellular monitoring.  Not having an old T-Mobile $3/month account, $16.95/month (monitoring fee + cellular service) isn't sounding too bad to me.  Thanks for the tip!!!

[MWareman]

I wasn't really addressing backup, but voip over cellular internet is my only connection. I have never had cellular go down nor have I ever seen google voice go down. I suppose it could. But what are the odds of that happening at the same time as I have an alarm? I have setup a system that for 5 years has been 100%. I don't really feel like a backup serves any purpose. There are no wires that someone could cut outside, it has power backup, and is way sufficient for the level of security my home and office warrant. If I had gold bullion stacked up in my living room, I might say different.

I know someone whose house was broken into. The intruder not only cut the cable TV and the phone line, they came with a cell blocker as well.... This was on the north side of Chicago about 2 years ago. He now has a crazy loud siren now as well...

 

This would break most of our plans... But it was also pretty targeted. It does have me wondering again about partnering up with neighbours for 'backup wifi' though.....

[Scottmichaelj]

Alarm Relay quoted $16.95/month for monitoring with their CBAT (cellular dial capture device). So $8/month extra for cellular monitoring. Not having an old T-Mobile $3/month account, $16.95/month (inc. monitoring fee) isn't sounding too bad to me. Thanks for the tip!!!

If you look at the other URL if you find a cell device cheap like the HAI/Leviton C3 and T-Mobile works in your area it could be around $3 a month. I linked to everything you need.

 

Also like Michael I have a router that used a 4G/LTE over USB so if your primary ISP goes down you have backup internet plus backup alarm reporting. Most just have to pay to add a new line for $9.99 and share the data. Since its backup it shouldn't need/use a lot if any unless you need it. Double duty.

[Scottmichaelj]

I wasn't really addressing backup, but voip over cellular internet is my only connection. I have never had cellular go down nor have I ever seen google voice go down. I suppose it could. But what are the odds of that happening at the same time as I have an alarm? I have setup a system that for 5 years has been 100%. I don't really feel like a backup serves any purpose. There are no wires that someone could cut outside, it has power backup, and is way sufficient for the level of security my home and office warrant. If I had gold bullion stacked up in my living room, I might say different.

I was confused too. Usually its primary internet and backup cellular for my customers. If the ISP or router fails the cellular acts as a backup. So I think Michael was thinking like me, Google voice is VOIP which uses the internet. So if your internet goes down everything is down. How does Google and the Obi work without internet? I am very familiar with Google Voice and the Obi, both of which require internet. In the old days sales people would use the "cut your telephone line" to upsell, but your right in new homes this isnt an issue. For most burglaries its smash a window, grab the laptop or whatever they can scope out through a window and go. Nothing is going to stop that. Cut lines maybe for a big job like a warehouse or something but thats even slim and again off topic as its commercial bot residential.

 

*Im not a police officer and these are my own opinions. Nothing is based on any real facts or numbers except my own experiences.

[apostolakisl]

I was confused too. Usually its primary internet and backup cellular for my customers. If the ISP or router fails the cellular acts as a backup. So I think Michael was thinking like me, Google voice is VOIP which uses the internet. So if your internet goes down everything is down. How does Google and the Obi work without internet? I am very familiar with Google Voice and the Obi, both of which require internet. In the old days sales people would use the "cut your telephone line" to upsell, but your right in new homes this isnt an issue. For most burglaries its smash a window, grab the laptop or whatever they can scope out through a window and go. Nothing is going to stop that. Cut lines maybe for a big job like a warehouse or something but thats even slim and again off topic as its commercial bot residential.

 

*Im not a police officer and these are my own opinions. Nothing is based on any real facts or numbers except my own experiences.

I use freedompop for the internet that my alarm voip is tied to.  It is free for 500mb /mo which is waaaaay less than a daily voip call uses.  It runs on sprint cellular, so you have to have descent sprint lte signal at your location. I was a little skeptical about this setup at first, which is why I set my panel to do daily test calls.  I have been using the freedompop for about 2 years now and haven't had a failed test call.

[jasont]

If you look at the other URL if you find a cell device cheap like the HAI/Leviton C3 and T-Mobile works in your area it could be around $3 a month. I linked to everything you need.

 

I def. like the $3/month aspect, but I'm a little wary of this solution needing to be replaced in a few years (per the little reading I've done on how long T-Mobile will keep 2G running).

 

I was wondering if I could get a WiFi hotspot and use it with a $0/month FreedomPop SIM <apostolakisi's quote below>, and use Alarm Relay's WiFi BAT device.  This way, if the Internet goes down, only the ELK would be using the WiFi from the FreedomPop LTE hotspot. 

 

I don't have any feel for how much data gets used when the alarm checks in over the Internet, but hopefully 200mb/month would be enough to do a test or two.

 

 

I use freedompop for the internet that my alarm voip is tied to.  It is free for 500mb /mo which is waaaaay less than a daily voip call uses.  It runs on sprint cellular, so you have to have descent sprint lte signal at your location. I was a little skeptical about this setup at first, which is why I set my panel to do daily test calls.  I have been using the freedompop for about 2 years now and haven't had a failed test call.

 

This looks pretty neat, although FYI, when I type in my zip code and give it my street address, T-Mobile and 200MB of free monthly data is the only choice.  Guess that must vary by region, and definitely not a problem for me!

[jasont]

Hmm, Alarm Relay charges $13.95/month if you use their WiFi BAT.  I don't understand that, it's doesn't seem to me like it'd be any different than "Internet monitoring" for them (which they normally charge $8.95/month). 

[Scottmichaelj]

Hmm, Alarm Relay charges $13.95/month if you use their WiFi BAT. I don't understand that, it's doesn't seem to me like it'd be any different than "Internet monitoring" for them (which they normally charge $8.95/month).

Yeah FreedomPop as backup would make sense if you get a signal. Most new routers will allow backup via USB. The key would be allowing the alarm to work while stopping other traffic so you don't blow past the limit.

 

FWIW I wasn't saying get a H3 but a device like that.

[Scottmichaelj]

voip works with alarm relay along with google voice and an obi unit with the "alarm" box checked on the google voice. I have used both regular land line based internet service and cellular internet service in this configuration and both work perfectly. I have both of my panels do nightly test calls and have never had a failure. Aside from a few up front purchases, this setup has no monthly recurring fees (aside from alarm relay of course).

So what FreedomPop device do you have? If he wanted to copy you he would need a OBI and then FreedomPop connects to it via USB or ethernet? Then it would be a separate system for him just for backups. Then the OBI connects via tradition phone line to the panel.