Roemotelinc 2 inconsistent

andrew77 · April 8, 2017

Hi guys;

My RL2s will trigger a scene improperly yet the ISY says otherwise.

I.E. I'l trigger an all dim scene and the ISY shows all lights on at the proper percentage but the actual lights aren't on at all.

Other times I have to turn the scene on and of repeatedly to get the actual state of the scene to be correct.

The lights that respond or ignore the command are random as well. Its not always the same device.

I know the RL2 needs to be held properly to send the signal but no matter how I hold it it is inconsistent.

I can hold the RL2 in the exact same position and get different outcomes from the button push.

Any one else have this issue?

Drew

stusviews · April 9, 2017

That sounds more like a communication problem than the fault of the Mini Remote. I have several of those remotes with no difficulties. I can even control a scene with the remote in my pocket. I never heard that the remote needs to be in a specific position. Run a scene test that has a remote button as a contolller. What's the result?

andrew77 · April 10, 2017

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:01 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 14 13 00 06

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.82.FE 41.02.FA 65 13 14 LTOFFRR(14)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 12.82.FE-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0B.6A.5C 41.02.FA 65 13 14 LTOFFRR(14)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 0B.6A.5C-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.D9.29 41.02.FA 65 13 14 LTOFFRR(14)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:02 AM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 0A.D9.29-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:03 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.D9.29 41.02.FA 62 EC CB (CB)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:03 AM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 0A.D9.29-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

<html>----- All Dim Test Results -----</html>

<html>[Failed] Entryway Sconce (D 11 F8 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Hutch (E A7 E3 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Kitchen Uppers (B 6E 7C 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Big Room KPL-A-Sconces (A D9 29 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Big Room (B 7B DF 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Big Room KPL-D-All Dim (A D9 29 4)</html>

<html>[ignore] BRRemote-D-All Dim (3F 3D 30 3)</html>

<html>[Failed] Alcove (12 81 9E 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Kitchen Sink (D 15 D9 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Kitchen Lowers (12 81 CF 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Bathroom Ceiling (12 82 FE 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Dining Room (B 7B 46 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Bathroom Wall Sconces (B 6A 5C 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Hallway KPL-A-Hallway (12 39 BB 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Hallway KPL-D-All Dim (12 39 BB 4)</html>

<html>----- All Dim Test Results -----</html>

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:09 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.14 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:09 AM : [std MH ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:14 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0A 22 38 0F 28 0F

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:14 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.22.38 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0A 22 38 0F 28 0F

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:23 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.22.38 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:17:27 AM : [A 22 38 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [E2014102FA010001] *Failed Writing [E2014102FA010001]

andrew77 · April 10, 2017

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:27 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 12 13 00 06

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:27 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 35.A4.5A 41.02.FA 65 13 12 LTOFFRR(12)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:27 AM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 35.A4.5A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

<html>----- Basement Dim Test Results -----</html>

<html>[Failed] Lamp Left (23 74 29 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Turtle (35 A4 5A 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Basement KPL-Living Room (18 58 67 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Basement Hall (18 B C7 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Rocking Chair Lamp (35 A4 D 1)</html>

<html>[ignore] Theatre Remote-D-All Dim (3F 3D EA 3)</html>

<html>[Failed] Andrew's Office-D-All Dim (A AE 5C 4)</html>

<html>[Failed] Basement KPL-All Dim (18 58 67 4)</html>

<html>[ignore] Office-D-All Dim (3F 3D 11 3)</html>

<html>[Failed] Theatre Room (1D D4 B7 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Library (18 10 4 1)</html>

<html>[Failed] Lamp Right (23 76 16 1)</html>

<html>----- Basement Dim Test Results -----</html>

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:35 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.12 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:35 AM : [std MH ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:36 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0A 22 38 0F 28 0F

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:36 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.22.38 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:45 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0A 22 38 0F 28 0F

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:45 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.22.38 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Mon 04/10/2017 10:19:49 AM : [A 22 38 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [E2014102FA010001] *Failed Writing [E2014102FA010001]

andrew77 · April 10, 2017

There are two tests.

It seems I have an issue.

I don't know how to read the results but I can say that sometimes when I press a remotelinc button the triggered scene sometimes either doesn't all light up or some lights are delayed in responding.

I did notice some comm issues when I installed LED lights but was told they probably weren't the issue.

As usual I can't think of anything that's new in the house that would cause interference.

Drew

stusviews · April 10, 2017

That's definitely a communication problem. Remove the LED bulbs and run the scene test again to eliminate that as a difficulty. Another test is to simply try with incandescent bulbs.

OTOH, you do a a lot of devices in the scene. It could be any device or anything on that circuit (is more than one circuit involved?). Create a new scene with the remote button as a controller and one device as a responder. Start with the device that reported success (Turtle). Then add one device at time until the problem arises.

BTW, It doesn't have to be something new causing a problem, electronic do age.

andrew77 · April 11, 2017

I removed everything except the Turtle (lamp)

Turtle still succeeded.

Every device I tried to add showed a fail in the Scene Test.

Removing every LED light isn't something I'd want to do as a permanent solution as I just replaced 40 50w par20 halogens with their LED equivalent.

If they're causing the interference (even when in an off state?) I'm out that $$$ plus the added $$$ in electricity bills putting the halogens back in.

I can try it for a test tomorrow.

I have to believe others are running LEDs everywhere and don't have this issue.

Drew

Techman · April 11, 2017

What device is actually controlling the LED load(s)?

What make LED bulbs are you using, are they rated as dimmable?

andrew77 · April 11, 2017

The LEDS are controlled by KPLs and SWLs. (I tried the tests with both, and with another light that's still incandescent)

The LEDs are dimmable but I can't remember the brand right now.

They weren't some dollar store LED lights. It was a reputable brand.

Drew

stusviews · April 11, 2017

Add one and only one failed device to the scene. There's no sense going any further until that problem is solved. Select a device that's easiest to remove or replace the bulb. Remove or replace the bulb. What's the result?

Techman · April 11, 2017

The LEDS are controlled by KPLs and SWLs. (I tried the tests with both, and with another light that's still incandescent)

The LEDs are dimmable but I can't remember the brand right now.

They weren't some dollar store LED lights. It was a reputable brand.

Drew

Dimmable LED bulbs contain a driver circuit, if you're getting flickering it's most likely an incompatibility between the bulbs driver circuit and the Insteon device.

I've had good results with FEIT and CREE bulbs. I've experienced flicker with some of the PHILLIPS bulbs.

If you have multiple bulbs running off of one Insteon device it could be that one of the bulbs has a defective driver.

andrew77 · April 12, 2017

I don't have any flickering so I'm assuming that's a good start.

Hi Stu

I did add only one at a time. I added one KPL and tested it. I removed that device from the scene and added a SWL. Tested and failed.

I removed that and then added another device where the load was incandescent only to isolate the LED factor.

This also showed fail on the Scene Test.

Drew

stusviews · April 12, 2017

What else is on the same circuit as the incandescent load that failed? Can you control that incandescent load alone reliably?

andrew77 · April 17, 2017

I can control the incandescents fine.

I will have to go through my electrical panel to see what's on the same circuit.

My main issue is running programs.

All programs are in consistent. If I have a KPL button that triggers a scene it sometimes fails.

But almost always a program fails the first time. I end up pushing the KPL button repeatedly until it triggers the way it should.

I would love to get to the bottom of this. I read about people never having a problem but my ISY and Insteon setup has always been problematic.

andrew77 · April 18, 2017

With so many failing devices (in scene tests) does anyone have a guess what could be wrong?

Just trying to get a stable set up

andrew77 · April 19, 2017

I find that even though I do a Scene Test that says Failed (for a certain device) half the time the scene triggers as it should.

Even though the test says it fails.

I've replaced the PLM as it was said that was probably the problem.

I'm thinking it wasn't.

My next trouble shooting will be to unscrew every LED light in the house.

Anyone have any other options? Thoughts?

I can also get an extension cord and plug the ISY into as many different outlets I can reach to see if that affects it.

Drew

andrew77 · April 19, 2017

This may or may not be related so I'll post it here. If its not I'll delete it and post it in its own thread.

I have a SWL that I used to have programmed to turn on 25% with a single on tap.

I deleted the program ages ago. I've air gapped the SWL, I've removed it from the ISY and put it back in.

It still goes to 25% when I tap it.

But... (theres always a but...)

If you tap it again it goes to 100% as it should. No problem.

Then you can shut it off and turn it back on and it goes to 100% as it should.

Until sometime later when it will revert to the previous behaviour.

I'm not sure if its because its triggered by a scene and then it recalls a non existent link or something?

Or it times out (I know I'm stretching here) and reverts due to that.

Drew

Teken · April 19, 2017

Hello Drew,

Based on what you have written thus far it does appear the other two members are correct. You have a serious comm issue in the home which is impacting the reliability of the Insteon network. As Stu and others noted you must remove all electronic devices in the home by unplugging / removing them like the LED bulbs.

Failure to do so will result in endless hunting and will never resolve the issue.

If you later find out one or more LED bulbs are the root cause. I can sympathize with reinstalling the incandescent bulbs that were just replaced. But, the reality is if you wish to see and have a consistent and reliable network you need to identify, remove, and replace anything that is injecting noise into the electrical system.

Obviously, you should filter what ever hardware devices you can but light bulbs that are proven to be the root cause have only one recourse and that is to replace them. Assuming they are one of the noise makers / signal suckers in the home.

Good luck!

andrew77 · April 19, 2017

I will wait until my day off and start in the morning. (Friday)

I will unplug everything hat can be unplugged, unscrew all lightbulbs.

At this point I do a Scene Test and see the result, correct?

(clearly I have to have power going to the computer but no other peripherals)

Let me know if I'm forgetting anything.

Drew

Teken · April 19, 2017

I will wait until my day off and start in the morning. (Friday)

I will unplug everything hat can be unplugged, unscrew all lightbulbs.

At this point I do a Scene Test and see the result, correct?

(clearly I have to have power going to the computer but no other peripherals)

Let me know if I'm forgetting anything.

Drew

Hello Drew,

Just to be clear is the computer system on a Insteon Filter Linc? Also, keep in mind anything that can't be easily unplugged like a fridge, freezer, stove, HVAC, just turn the breaker(s) off during the test(s).

andrew77 · April 19, 2017

The computer isn't on a Filter presently but I have a 10A one hanging around. I'll make sure to do that. I'll start with shutting off all breaker save the computer and the ISY outlets and isolate whatever is on those breakers by unplugging and unscrewing where needed

Drew

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Roemotelinc 2 inconsistent

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