Blinking Dimmers, Flashing Lights, Mis-communications and more

[deirwin]

Very weird issues and problems much bigger than me.  I have extensive Insteon system with ELK M1G and more.  A few of my dimmers stopped communicating with ISY and a few I am unable to use and a couple that seem to be communicating with dimmers they are not intended (or programmed) to communicate with but with bizarre issues. A few keypads lights stopped illuminating.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

1. Kitchen ceiling dimmer appears to turn on up ta small %, then instantly off, every 1.5 seconds or so.  Prior to this happening, I wasn't able to use this switch for a while, then I was able again.  Then I wasn't, but discovered Alexa could turn on the lights.  Today was even more strange, the dimmer's led was not on, so I pulled the little tab out from underneath and pushed back in and held for a few seconds, and the light went back on.  But it was blinking.  If I asked Alexa to turn on the lights, it stopped blinking, but was not functioning.

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fo-vmrkmGhwDPmv9JoN1gw6p9QfAJ1QSmQ/view?usp=sharing

Video with Alexa: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXfK-K8YQl3CvzfS5MgcE6s70RXzT-_BQg/view?usp=sharing

 

2. Kitchen "remote" switch, which is just a dummy so we can turn on the island lights from that spot stopped working altogether.  

 

3. Keypad, which is also power for Island lights stopped working properly.  The lights are very dim, but they do nothing.

 

4. A few keypads lights stopped working.  And I am unable to operate all buttons through ISY.  (I have had very big issues with keypads blinking, clicking and quite functioning - I doubt if related, because that has been so long-term). 

 

5. ISY is not able to communicate with several switches, but the switches themselves seem to work perfectly.  

 

6. Probably weirdest: Family Room Side lights sometimes operate the hallway when not in program and Hallway dimmer blinks moves slowly and more.  Hallway dimmer makes Family Room side lights act odd.  Lights flash (as in video below). There are 3 hallway switches, but this one is only one that seems effected.  (The switch on the right is for the family room to the right, the left is for the hallway, which is to the left.)

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sBC1exFCJNKrb7kZXzItoLgr9FQOfnwCLw/view?usp=sharing

Video 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12AdFGaKZMRwJU2Fznj7CTOWseXEhLHKccQ/view?usp=sharing

 

Maybe unrelated but I think too cooincidental that most issues started at same time.

 

Thanks for any thoughts!

Dean

[Teken]

Dean,

 

Remove the loads and report back how the switch behaves.

 

Is. Does the light pipe strobe up and down as seen in your video

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

All your links now are showing Album is Empty so I can't see anything.

 

Check your connections for a good connection and try no load as pointed out.

 

A power cycle reset. Where you pull out the Set button {Gap Switch} and then push it back to normal position may help. Don't go past normal or a factory reset may happen.

 

Pulsing On and off. LED bargraph. Cycling On and Off for relay types. Dimming up and down for dimmer types can indicate the power supply in the module has failed.

I had a 2456S ApplianceLinc start pulsing On and Off at about a one second interval. Bad capacitor in the power supply.

[deirwin]

All video links should be repaired - sorry.

 

Hey Teken, I turned power off and on, and the only thing that changed is the island lights started working, but the remote dimmer still does not light up.  The keypad is not functional and does not respond to buttons being pushed.  I can only make them work via Alexa.

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rbvVq-ObaA377m37uCIeTxFQmwWnarYjGQ/view?usp=sharing

 

Gap reset didn't help on any of them.

 

Thanks again.

[Teken]

Sorry if I was unclear ~ You have two choices which ever is easier to do.

 

- Remove the load (light bulb) from the ceiling.

- Unplug the red load wire from the back of the switch and cap it off.

 

Once done the switch is going to strobe up and down or not. If the problem goes away replace the bulbs and check again.

 

If the problem continues with no load it's more than likely the PSU inside of the switch. This assumes all of your wiring is tight and properly connected using linesmen pliers. Simply turning the wire nut is not enough for a solid bond.

 

How old are these switches and what does it say is the production and revision on the front sticker?

 

Lastly, does the switch indicate it's a wide voltage range switch from 100~277 VAC? That is stamped on the front top of the metal case. If the switches are under two years and it's faulty hardware have it cross docked for RMA.

 

 

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[deirwin]

Thanks again Teken, on the strobing dimmer, I capped off the red wire and the issue continued. So, I will replace that unit.

2476d, v4.35, 0945

 

Island Remote (the one that doesn’t turn on and is next to the strobing unit) 

2476D, V 4.35, 0945

 

The keypad has two stickers:

2486D, 0643

V1.4, 4147

 

Family Room Side (the one on the right of the 2-gang) has a sticker that says “primary”, and v3.2, 3842

 

Hallway (the one on the left of the 2-gang)

2477d ,rev.7.2,2913

[Teken]

Thanks again Teken, on the strobing dimmer, I capped off the red wire and the issue continued. So, I will replace that unit.

2476d, v4.35, 0945

 

Island Remote (the one that doesn’t turn on and is next to the strobing unit) 

2476D, V 4.35, 0945

 

The keypad has two stickers:

2486D, 0643

V1.4, 4147

 

Family Room Side (the one on the right of the 2-gang) has a sticker that says “primary”, and v3.2, 3842

 

Hallway (the one on the left of the 2-gang)

2477d ,rev.7.2,2913

 

Wow ~ You have some of the first & second generation switches there dating back to 2009 45th week of production. The 2006 of 43th week is one of the oldest for sure as Insteon came out in 2005! The other one I have no clue as that was a time where they had some really odd production dates: 3842?!?

 

I have no clue how to decipher that production date . . .

 

If its any consoluation once you receive the new wide voltage range hardware that support 100~277 VAC it will offer better voltage fluctuations. Also, all of the new hardware provide dual colored set button LED's. Which offer more insight and diagnostics to the comms in the home while in use. Of course having dual band is a plus as many of your hardware was single band so expect better response and reliability.

 

Lastly, you should see a marked improvement in programming in the ISY Series Controller as the older hardware used a slower protocol.  

[deirwin]

Thanks again Teken, time flies...  I had Insteon in my prior house too, so I guess I was earlier adopter than I knew.  I replaced the three in Kitchen (KPL and two dimmers) with new dimmers and they work perfectly.

 

I went and deleted the Family Room Side and Hallway (2477d, rev.7.2, 2913) from ISY and all related scenes and programs (I hope).  When I added the FR (only) back into ISY, it seemed to work perfectly through the ISY, then, when i pushed the button itself, it also turned on the hall lights.  Then I deleted the FR again in ISY and physically turned on the FR and they both turned on and the Hall started buzzing.

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OXhequhoiDM2AW61wgpE1pEO6fPZDtl9rg/view?usp=sharing

 

I removed the light bulbs from the hall and it just stopped responding to physical button pushing.

[Teken]

Thanks again Teken, time flies...  I had Insteon in my prior house too, so I guess I was earlier adopter than I knew.  I replaced the three in Kitchen (KPL and two dimmers) with new dimmers and they work perfectly.

 

I went and deleted the Family Room Side and Hallway (2477d, rev.7.2, 2913) from ISY and all related scenes and programs (I hope).  When I added the FR (only) back into ISY, it seemed to work perfectly through the ISY, then, when i pushed the button itself, it also turned on the hall lights.  Then I deleted the FR again in ISY and physically turned on the FR and they both turned on and the Hall started buzzing.

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OXhequhoiDM2AW61wgpE1pEO6fPZDtl9rg/view?usp=sharing

 

I removed the light bulbs from the hall and it just stopped responding to physical button pushing.

 

Hello Dean,

 

For clarification, in the video you provided has the actual light bulbs been removed during that test? If you have time I would be interested in seeing just the left switch that supports 100~277 VAC, 2477D Rev 7.2 produced in 2913 (2013 ~ 29th week) wired to a spare extension cord. Very curious to see if you hard reset the switch and ensuring its been properly deleted from the ISY Series Controller.

 

If you do these two things what happens:

 

- Switch is simply wired to an extension cord with no links to the ISY Series Controller and hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

- Same test but its attached to a load of your choice also not linked and has been hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

 

I've never seen the lighting sequence you show cased in this latest video before. The red LED and buzzing in the past indicated improper wiring or incompatible load(s). The fact is strobing up and down indicates its a PSU issue but hard to say with out seeing the results of the two tests outlined above. As an aside if time isn't an issue and you like to tinker.

 

I can provide you a link where I show how to replace the capacitors for the switch link / KPL's. Doing this has allowed me to give the hardware another second life in my home.

[deirwin]

Hello Dean,

 

For clarification, in the video you provided has the actual light bulbs been removed during that test? If you have time I would be interested in seeing just the left switch that supports 100~277 VAC, 2477D Rev 7.2 produced in 2913 (2013 ~ 29th week) wired to a spare extension cord. Very curious to see if you hard reset the switch and ensuring its been properly deleted from the ISY Series Controller.

 

If you do these two things what happens:

 

- Switch is simply wired to an extension cord with no links to the ISY Series Controller and hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

- Same test but its attached to a load of your choice also not linked and has been hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

 

I've never seen the lighting sequence you show cased in this latest video before. The red LED and buzzing in the past indicated improper wiring or incompatible load(s). The fact is strobing up and down indicates its a PSU issue but hard to say with out seeing the results of the two tests outlined above. As an aside if time isn't an issue and you like to tinker.

 

I can provide you a link where I show how to replace the capacitors for the switch link / KPL's. Doing this has allowed me to give the hardware another second life in my home.

Hello Teken,

 

I really appreciate your help.  No, in this video, the light bulbs were still in sockets (2 LED's in recessed ceiling lights).  Prior to taking the lights out, I did this:

Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11yV9zXzu7egvGAPbudaqF4p76bpYNPJDyA/view?usp=sharing

 

Then, when I took the bulbs out, I was unable to get the switch to turn on or react to buttons being pushed.  So, I removed both of those dimmers from system and all programs and scenes.  I then too a remote from the hall and replaced the one you are speaking with that.  I replaced the family room dimmer (the one that said "Primary") with a brand new 2677d.  I took that Primary and made it a remote switch (I have not yet set that up).

 

I was curious too, and I did as you requested.  In the following video, I am holding the one you asked about.  In the wall is the one that said "Primary", with the red capped off.  Neither is set-up in ISY, but they are the two that were reacting to each other previously.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw3Pp4ge8dQFbEZwUmxzQWRjNEE/view?usp=sharing

 

I would like to know how to salvage.  I have 9 or 10 dimmers and at least a half dozen KPL that quit, or started acting erratically.

 

Thanks again, Dean

[Teken]

So in that video the one I asked about is working fine now without a load attached correct?

 

 

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[deirwin]

So in that video the one I asked about is working fine now without a load attached correct?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is correct.

Dean

[deirwin]

Hello Dean,

 

For clarification, in the video you provided has the actual light bulbs been removed during that test? If you have time I would be interested in seeing just the left switch that supports 100~277 VAC, 2477D Rev 7.2 produced in 2913 (2013 ~ 29th week) wired to a spare extension cord. Very curious to see if you hard reset the switch and ensuring its been properly deleted from the ISY Series Controller.

 

If you do these two things what happens:

 

- Switch is simply wired to an extension cord with no links to the ISY Series Controller and hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

- Same test but its attached to a load of your choice also not linked and has been hard reset: Pressing the switch up and down what happens?

 

I've never seen the lighting sequence you show cased in this latest video before. The red LED and buzzing in the past indicated improper wiring or incompatible load(s). The fact is strobing up and down indicates its a PSU issue but hard to say with out seeing the results of the two tests outlined above. As an aside if time isn't an issue and you like to tinker.

 

I can provide you a link where I show how to replace the capacitors for the switch link / KPL's. Doing this has allowed me to give the hardware another second life in my home.

 

Hey Teken, when you get a chance, could you please share the link? Gracias, D

[Teken]

Hey Teken, when you get a chance, could you please share the link? Gracias, D

 

Sure just scroll down about mid way down the thread. Apologies for some of the broken links as Photobucket killed off 3rd party hosting and I have been trying to back fill thousands of images.

 

Takes a hell of a lot of time . . .

 

http://www.brultech.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=929&start=230