water doesn't turn off

[dleduc]

I recently added a new Insteon On/Off module to water my side garden along with a simple program that turns it on and off every day.  However, the water often does not turn off.  If I look at the log, a sample of which I have attached, it shows an error when it receives the off signal.  For now, my workaround is that I wrote another program that runs a few minutes after the original program that sends multiple off commands and one of those manages to get through and turn it off.  This leaves me with some questions.  Why is it failing?  Do I have a defective module or is there some other reason?  One thing that I see in the log of some concern is that there are large number of status requests for X10 devices.  I don't know why it is doing that, but I could see that maybe the network traffic is interfering with the intentional signals.  I still have two legacy X10 devices in my house.  One is unplugged and the is on a 2-way switch that would require significant rewiring to convert to Insteon since it is wired as a 2-way switch.  I could convert it back to a manual switch if that would help.

ErrorLog.txt

[Brian H]

The power line is flooded with X10J Status Requests.  Interfering with the Insteon controller sending anything.

What is controlling the two remaining X10 Switches.  If you are using a controller. Unplug it and see if the signal firestorm stops.

Two way. They have an X10 transmitter in them to control other X10 modules or they are in a three way setup where either one can turn the light on or off? If they don't have a X10 power line transmitter in them. They can't send any X10 signals on the power lines.

You may have an electronic device making power line noise. Being seen as a X10 J Status request. Any new electronics in the home? You may want to go around and unplug things and see if anything changes.

You may find some information on Jeff's excellent set of X10 troubleshooting tutorials. The one on the cell phone charger and CFL-LED bulbs are very interesting.

http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

Edited May 20, 2018 by Brian H

[paulbates]

I would break it into a couple of questions/tests. Its possible 

1. Do you use Housecode J for X10? Housecode J and the Address/Function Status Request is all X10 bits set to On. As Brian points out, powerline noise can create this exact error and it can happen in houses that have no X10 at all. However, sometimes older X10 switches have problems and send beaconing traffic and need to be reset or replaced. First step, eliminate or confirm X10 devices as the problem
    
   • Eliminate X10 devices as the culprit. Unplug or unwire (temporarily) any X10 devices and try turning the watering device on and off.. does it work correctly?
     • If it works correctly after unwiring, the X10 device was the culprit... maybe unwiring and rewiring it will fix it... I've had it happen before.
        
   • Temporarily disable any X10 related ISY programs, especially if they do status requests. Does it work correctly?
     • Did disabling your programs makes the problem stop, you'll want to post them here and we'll try to help... 
        
   • If neither of the above fixed the problem and/or stopped the X10 J / Status Request messages, then your X10 devices are not the problem: move on to 2:
      
2. Since it sounds like the watering device turns on consistently, but not back off, the load you are controlling to water is suspect of injecting noise. Is it a pump?
   • Unplug the watering device and run the programs for a few days? Does it work correctly?
     • If yes, and X10 messages disappear, plug the watering device into an Insteon Filterlinc

Paul

 

[dleduc]

Thank you Brian and Paul.  I suspected that the storm of X10 requests is my problem.  I have no X10 devices that are supposed to be J.  The newest piece of electronics that I have plugged in is the water valve.  The first thing I did is disable programs that might use X10 and it didn't seem to help.Tomorrow I will get a normal 3-way switch (I've corrected my terminology)  to replace the X10 that is wired in and see if that has any effect.  In the log that I checked today the water valve worked correctly in spite of the flood of X10 messages, but there was a change, not all of the X10 messages were X10 status requests and several were letters other than J.  I do intend to convert fully to Insteon, but the remaining X10 wiring is not right for Insteon and it is now too hot in the attic to pull wire until next winter.

[paulbates]

Sounds good. If you simply pull the wall plate and and un-wire the 3 way... then go look at the log to see if its stopped the storm. If there's no change, you've eliminated the switch as the problem and can wire it up. Buy a new 3 way only if its the culprit

Paul

[Brian H]

Do you happen to have a X10 Coupler/Repeater still in use from your X10 days?

Some of them where known to cause firestorms in some conditions. If disconnecting the X10 wall switches doesn't stop it. You may also want to turn off the coupler/repeater circuit breakers. Then see if it is sending the firestorm.

If you have a smart meter from the power company. Though rare. There was one system reported on the X10 forums that was causing issues.

[msoileau]

You might also try removing/turning off LED bulbs. I've had multiple instances of noise from Cree LED bulbs causing the PLM/ISY to log X10 commands. Turning off the light would clear up the problems. 

[dleduc]

Last night I eliminated the last X10 device plugged into my house and I wanted to give it a day to see what the log looked like.  Unfortunately,  I am still getting the flood of X10 status requests.  These happen before I ever turn on my device and for a long time after it is turned off so it does not seem to be the culprit.  Brian 's post made me think about the coupler/repeater and I think that I might have put one in in my X10 days, but today I pulled the cover off of my circuit breaker panel and could not see it.  I think that it was a box wired to 2 circuit breakers and I don't seem to have anything like that in my box.  In fact I looked at an old key to my circuit breakers and one of the circuit breakers that used to be connected is unused and the other controls some different lights.  However, I did  notice something about the status requests:  today they started at 10:28 and ended at 16:14; yesterday they started at about 9:30 and ended at about the same time.  I have solar power and this is likely the period of time when I am selling back to the utility although it could be something else.  There really shouldn't be any lights on and my air conditioner, refrigerator, or freezer do not run constantly so they seem unlikely culprits.  It seems likely that these X10 signals are noise getting interpreted as X10.  Is there anything else I can do to clean up this and make all of my Insteon devices more reliable?  Thanks.