Best mid-level NVR?

[jasont]

IIRC, Dahua's Android app is called gDMSS, and Hikvision's is called iVMS-4500.  I've not  used the Android versions, but the last time I used the iOS versions, the apps felt like the same app... like Hikvision and Dahua used the same third-party to build them, and that company put on a slightly different skin to differentiate them between Hik/Dahua.

Both of these apps will let you connect directly to a camera (no NVR required), view the live stream, view recordings (if the camera is recording to a SD card), and give you access to some of the cameras settings.  To get access to all of the camera settings, you'll need to use a web browser and connect to the cameras web UI from a computer.  Doing this may require installing a browser plugin.  Both Hikvision and Dahua have plugins for Windows and Mac.  This thread might be useful, has a little Linux info:   https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/how-to-view-dahua-cameras-without-browser-plugins.28757/#post-276641

For viewing streams, both Hikvision and Dahua support the RTSP protocol, which allows third-party apps the ability to connect/view the live stream.  TinyCamPro seems to be the most popular popular Android app I see folks talk about frequently, and I'd be surprised if the PlayStore doesn't have a ton of similar apps.  These third-party apps aren't Hikvision or Dahua specific, so you may have to find TinyCamPro in the PlayStore, see which category its in, and then look for other apps in the same category.  Hikvision and Dahua aren't consumer-level cameras, so I'm not too surprised that there aren't many PlayStore search results for them.

The usual factors that influence DVR prices are how many HDDs will fit inside, if it has PoE ports built-in <some folks prefer to have a separate PoE switch>, and the maximum number of cameras/bandwidth that it supports.

Both Hikvision and Dahuas websites are geared for industry professionals, not consumers, which makes browsing them a PITA.  If you haven't already found this thread, it might be an easier-to-use reference for the most popular Dahua cameras.
https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-2mp-starlight-lineup.14793/

 

 

 

 

 

[kohai]

I appreciate all the great insights everyone is contributing to this thread.

[larryllix]

Getting these things to Canada is a completely different story. Getting a PTZ cam under $500 in Canada is another story again. Amazon.ca has barely even heard of Dahua and yet any attempt to order via amazon.com gets constantly redirected.

I managed to order a SD22204T-GN from NewEgg.ca. Newegg.com pulls the same redirections when they find out you are in Canada, despite being shipped from China. Once you accept the redirection the products do not exist anymore.

[Scottmichaelj]

IIRC, Dahua's Android app is called gDMSS, and Hikvision's is called iVMS-4500...

 No arguments from me regarding your posts. You make good points and info is correct. For me as an installer I go to brands that are trusted and true. Workhorses and solid. For me that is Hik. I own an AV Installation and consulting company so I stick to what I know. I can configure Hik in my sleep and they keep going and going. 

One small thing to point out just so you and anybody else reading this is clear. I own an Audio Video Installation company. I am an authorized reseller for everything I sell. That means anything sold to any member here or to my clients has full warranties. Second I am an preferred partner for Elk Alarm, Watchlight/Alarm Relay, Hunter Douglas, RTI, etc. So rest assured anyone I sell a item to is covered, period. I have helped many users on this forum for free without selling one thing to them. Some ask, why would I do this? My reply is simple, because others here have helped me along my way when I needed help. Members like StusViews, Mwareman, Teken, LarryL, etc to name a few. I try and pay it forward to the next “me” who needs help. Sure I am in business to make money but I have been successful to be able make enough money where I don’t need to be greedy and can help others. It actually makes me happy to know I can help and not have to charge people. Not that you insinuated otherwise but I wanted to set the record straight.

 

[larryllix]

All this information has been great guys! Thanks.

As the fog slowly clears (somewhat) and the thread is about NVRs. Some things I would like to hear about.... 

• Are all PoE systems compatible. I understand this is by injecting 48 vdc into the NVR or Switch end.
  -   Some NVRs supply this and some don't. I assume this would be best in the NVR
  -  In lieu of an NVR supplying PoE small adapters would be needed. Why do some state 12/24/48 v ? 
•  
• The camera that I ordered states 12v @ 1.5A = 18W and this appears to be over the PoE spec of 12.xW?.
  -  Is this going to become a problem or wil the PTZ be slow or TBD?
•  
• Face and licence plate tracking.
  - Where is this done? In the NVR, cam or either? 
  - Is this the same as "intelligent 3D positioning?
  - Is facial recognition just an identifying technology or does it mean tracking?
•  

[jasont]

Quote

The camera that I ordered states 12v @ 1.5A = 18W and this appears to be over the PoE spec of 12.xW?.
-  Is this going to become a problem or wil the PTZ be slow or TBD?

Do you have the spec page for the camera you bought?  

Dahua will usually break their camera's power requirements out like this:
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/17491?us

Electrical

Power Supply

DC 12V/1.5A, PoE(802.3af)

Power Consumption

10W

Looks like this camera uses 10W max, so Dahua's spec for it is PoE(802.3af), which is 12.5W.  That's the most common type of PoE rating, so you shouldn't have any problems finding a NVR, PoE switch, or injector for this.

Quote

-  In lieu of an NVR supplying PoE small adapters would be needed. Why do some state 12/24/48 v ? 

Those small adapters are called injectors.  If you're going to use an injector, just make sure the rating matches the camera's.  i.e if your camera states 802.3af, make sure the injector specifically states 802.3af as well. 

Quote

Are all PoE systems compatible. I understand this is by injecting 48 vdc into the NVR or Switch end.
-   Some NVRs supply this and some don't. I assume this would be best in the NVR

Most PoE NVRs and external switches support "PoE" (802.3af) and "PoE+"(802.3at).   If you buy a camera that needs more than PoE+, you're buying one heck of a camera!    

There are pros and cons to having PoE built-into the NVR.  To me, the biggest con is that since all of your cameras' ethernet cables have to physically plug into the back of a NVR with PoE, this can limit where the NVR is installed.  For folks who run all of their camera ethernet cables to a specific "smart closet", it may not make sense to have the NVR stuck in the same closet simply because the cables all terminate there.  In that case, it may make more sense for them to use an external PoE switch in that closet, which then frees them up to move the NVR to just about anywhere else in the house.

Quote

Face and licence plate tracking.
- Where is this done? In the NVR, cam or either? 
- Is this the same as "intelligent 3D positioning?
- Is facial recognition just an identifying technology or does it mean tracking?

License plate tracking almost always requires a separate PC running special software to do that.  I've not seen many folks talk about facial recognition or the intelligent 3d positioning... not sure if those are features of more expensive NVRs?

[larryllix]

7 minutes ago, jasont said:

Do you have the spec page for the camera you bought?  

Dahua will usually break their camera's power requirements out like this:
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/17491?us

Electrical

Power Supply

DC 12V/1.5A, PoE(802.3af)

Power Consumption

10W

Looks like this camera uses 10W max, so Dahua's spec for it is PoE(802.3af), which is 12.5W.  That's the most common type of PoE rating, so you shouldn't have any problems finding a NVR, PoE switch, or injector for this.

Those small adapters are called injectors.  If you're going to use an injector, just make sure the rating matches the camera's.  i.e if your camera states 802.3af, make sure the injector specifically states 802.3af as well. 

Most PoE NVRs and external switches support "PoE" (802.3af) and "PoE+"(802.3at).   If you buy a camera that needs more than PoE+, you're buying one heck of a camera!    

There are pros and cons to having PoE built-into the NVR.  To me, the biggest con is that since all of your cameras' ethernet cables have to physically plug into the back of a NVR with PoE, this can limit where the NVR is installed.  For folks who run all of their camera ethernet cables to a specific "smart closet", it may not make sense to have the NVR stuck in the same closet simply because the cables all terminate there.  In that case, it may make more sense for them to use an external PoE switch in that closet, which then frees them up to move the NVR to just about anywhere else in the house.

License plate tracking almost always requires a separate PC running special software to do that.  I've not seen many folks talk about facial recognition or the intelligent 3d positioning... not sure if those are features of more expensive NVRs?

Thanks for the responses!!

Yeah the PS is rated exactly as that with three different power ratings. Sounds very non-definitive 10W, 12x1.5=18W and PoE = 12.4W max.   I assume it will work anyway but thanks for the vote of confidence. The PoE rating standards are good to know about.

The PoE combined source is good to be aware of. What sounds like a great idea could end up being a PITA with different brands, and distributed cable commons run around a building looking for small potential differences due to lightning induction. I did lose a temperature sensor input on a hydronic mixer board last year. Being bolted to a huge metal plate (soffits) seems like a huge problem. To be fair that lightning hit the ground behind me and blew me out of my computer chair when the air punched me in the back.

So license plate extraction and other refined smart things take a very smart NVR program or device. Makes sense.

Reading the forum you supplied I now discovered the cam I ordered has no iR illumination grrrrrrr..... The bad spec listings online use a broken feature table and the iR LED is listed but underneath and the next line is "N/A".  I guess it's mine now anyway from China. Probably cost me more to ship it back than it's worth.

I'm learning...slowly...and the hard way.

[jasont]

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

Sounds very non-definitive 10W, 12x1.5=18W and PoE = 12.4W max

I think the 10W is definitive (from the Power Consumption line on the spec sheet).  Not that I watch my cameras' power consumption 24x7, but I have monitored them late at night (when the IR lights were on at full power), and the wattage being used is always a bit under whatever Dahua had them rated for (in the Power Consumption line for each model).

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

To be fair that lightning hit the ground behind me and blew me out of my computer chair when the air punched me in the back.

Holy cow!!!!  Over the last two years, I've used four different models of external PoE switches (to connect my outdoor cameras to).  The first two switches ran fine during thunderstorms (although I've never had a strike anywhere near as close as you did).  The other two switches will temporarily power down ports during thunderstorms... I'm guessing they are sensitive enough to notice the difference changes across the ethernet cable.  My cameras are directly attached to the house ... not out on poles in the yard ... so I did not use shielded ethernet cables when I did my camera installs.  I may revisit that choice one day, but that would be a lot of cable to re-pull/terminate/ground!  

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

So license plate extraction and other refined smart things take a very smart NVR program or device. Makes sense.

Seems like most enthusiasts will use a spare PC for things like license plate (or "human") recognition.  Often times it will involve sending a snapshot of an image up to a cloud service for confirmation (and extra data, like car make/model, etc).  I've enjoyed reading through some of the threads on ipcamtalk, but I haven't been interested enough to give it a whirl.

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

I'm learning...slowly...and the hard way.

You're not alone!  My first camera is one I now wish I hadn't purchased, but I eventually found a place for it.  Lots of great smarthome info here at UDI, and lots of great IP camera/NVR info (for all brands) over on ipcamtalk.  Since I've started being active on these forums, my purchases have gotten a lot better.  

[larryllix]

You're not alone!  My first camera is one I now wish I hadn't purchased, but I eventually found a place for it.  Lots of great smarthome info here at UDI, and lots of great IP camera/NVR info (for all brands) over on ipcamtalk.  Since I've started being active on these forums, my purchases have gotten a lot better.  

Powering down things doesn't help ground potential gradients. You require ground isolation between devices in different locations.

 

It really surprises me that large pieces of metal siding are not required to be grounded by building and electrical codes. Induction is a bitch

 

Yeah, my wife laughed at me when it happened. She was across the room but my back was to the open window. I saw the reflection of the arc in my monitor and I guess I jumped very high and almost across my desk when I felt the air pressure hit my back.

 

I worked with live HV things most of my career and am still terrified. I attract static electricity that has even dropped me to my knees once upon a time.

 

Later I discovered several electrical things were not functioning.

 

We get very little lightning here but are at the top of a small mountain. We would just call it a hill but many places would call it a mountain. 100 km. views are nice though.

 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk