Range Extender and Phase Bridges part 2992-222

[zxplod]

Hi,

I'm having A LOT of communication issues.  I have been looking at range extenders (part number 2992-222).  I have a few questions. 

1) As far as bridging phases.  I thought that almost all insteon products acted as phase bridges though do they not?  Or do I specifically need these?

2) If I have multiple power panels then do I need to put a pair of these to bridge the phases on each panel? 

3) Using these as range extenders, to extend the range of my insteon devices, can I have more than two of these?  For example, can I have 12 of them scattered everywhere?  Will they all communicate with one another? 

4) Do they require any setup to communicate with one another or with the ISY?

Sorry for all the questions but the manual on these is two pages and has VERY little information.  It certainly doesn't clearly answer any of these questions. 

Thanks so much,

-David

[Brian H]

1) Yes all dual band Insteon modules pass messages between them by both Insteon RF and power line signals. If you have many dual band modules in the setup. You do not need any. In fact they are a 2457D2 Lamplinc with the dimming circuit removed. Many users use the Lamplinc in case they have a need to dim something later.

3) Yes as many as you find necessary. Almost all dual band devices including the extenders have a built in communications test {four tap or beacon}  The full users manuals for the modules explain how to start it and how to read the results. You can also use the communications test between other type dual band module or a module to an extender.

4) No. Range extenders and the older Access Points are not added into the ISY Administrative Console. The communications tests show if they are communicating and if on opposite or same  phase. Not ever module has to talk to every other one.

Some of your problems can be power line noise or electronics absorbing the power line signals. I have seen some reports if the noise it high it may stop the modules from working.

[paulbates]

Hi David

Can you describe what’s happening:

- generally intermittent?

- you can consistently send ons, but offs fail?

- ISY programs are not responding to Insteon controller actions?

- just some devices?

 

Paul

 

 

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[Techman]

13 hours ago, zxplod said:

Hi,

I'm having A LOT of communication issues.  I have been looking at range extenders (part number 2992-222).  I have a few questions. 

1) As far as bridging phases.  I thought that almost all insteon products acted as phase bridges though do they not?  Or do I specifically need these?

2) If I have multiple power panels then do I need to put a pair of these to bridge the phases on each panel? 

3) Using these as range extenders, to extend the range of my insteon devices, can I have more than two of these?  For example, can I have 12 of them scattered everywhere?  Will they all communicate with one another? 

4) Do they require any setup to communicate with one another or with the ISY?

Sorry for all the questions but the manual on these is two pages and has VERY little information.  It certainly doesn't clearly answer any of these questions. 

Thanks so much,

-David

 

Here's an article on troubleshooting communication issues

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

Range extenders do not have link tables, you just plug them in, no installation required

 

 

 

[hlaiii]

The user's manual for the 2992-222 Range Extender doesn't seem to specifically cover communication activity over the Insteon network with respect to the status LED of the Range Extender.  I learned this when my network began losing communications and connectivity to switches, modules and the like.  This has happened twice now (when older modules had failed).

I had replaced a bunch of older LampLinc Dimmer Dual Band (2457D2) devices, which I had been using as communication extenders and "bridges" with the newer 2992-222 Range Extender (I wasn't really using the older dimmer modules for their stated purpose).  Yes, you can identify proper bridging of the electrical phases of one's home, and the newer 2992-222 Range Extenders work well for that.  The status LED stays solid green when in "idle" mode (when there is no specific Insteon network activity), but the status LED flashes when there is active Insteon network activity.

The "aha moment" came when my entire network stopped working (no communication from the PLM to various switches and modules), and I noticed that the 2992-222 modules had LEDs which were now primarily dark, with rare and occasional green flashes.  It then occurred to me that something might be nearly continuously broadcasting or making almost constant Insteon "noise", and drowning out active communication on my Insteon network.

Sure enough, by air gapping my switches one by one and unplugging modules (and each time observing the 2992-222 module status LED), I was quickly able to identify which switch had failed and was making all the "noise" - the status LED became solid green when I air gapped the dysfunctional switch.  Once replaced, everything was fully operational.

The second time was when one of my 2441V Thermostat Adapters was not working, and was subsequently identified to be actually making "noise".  Once I unplugged that adapter, the status LEDs on my several 2992-222 Range Extender modules went from dark (with occasional green flashes) to solid green.  My Insteon network was instantly and fully operational again.  

Yes, those same 2441V Thermostat Adapters that gave us all the problems in the past.  Even now with Revision 2.3 and 2.4R (refurbished), I still have occasional headaches. I snapped up a couple of 2441TH Insteon Thermostats (and 2441ZTH Wireless Thermostats) when they went on sale. Replacing the older Venstar units with the 2441TH units may be like going from the frying pan into the fire. 

[paulbates]

17 minutes ago, hlaiii said:

The "aha moment" came when my entire network stopped working (no communication from the PLM to various switches and modules), and I noticed that the 2992-222 modules had LEDs which were now primarily dark, with rare and occasional green flashes.  It then occurred to me that something might be nearly continuously broadcasting or making almost constant Insteon "noise", and drowning out active communication on my Insteon network.

Sure enough, by air gapping my switches one by one and unplugging modules (and each time observing the 2992-222 module status LED), I was quickly able to identify which switch had failed and was making all the "noise" - the status LED became solid green when I air gapped the dysfunctional switch.  Once replaced, everything was fully operational.

If you're having this problem chronically, you may want to look at a whole house surge protector for your panel. Earlier single band devices tended to be sensitive to powerline surges and brown outs. The whole house surge protector is typically in the $75 to $125 range, not including installation and is a good insurance policy against this happening.

I've had the distant relative of this one for about 16 years and have few problems with my wired in devices.

[hlaiii]

Intermatic also makes a nice unit (albeit a little more expensive) that has replaceable, consumable modules.  Each of the modules has indicator lights to indicate active power, and active (or inactive) surge protection for each phase (and common) of one's home.

I thought that "surge protectors" were Insteon communication signal "traps", and that was the whole reason to put UPS devices and surge protectors each behind a FilterLinc?  This was a factor in my decision to originally abandon the thought of a whole house surge protector....

 

https://www.intermatic.com/en/surge-protection/whole-house-surge/ig2240-imsk

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Intermatic-Smart-Guard-Whole-Home-Surge-Protector-Metal-Mounting-Kit-IG2240-IMSK/303170847

https://www.intermatic.com/en/surge-protection/whole-house-surge/ig2240-pk

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Intermatic-Smart-Guard-Whole-Home-Surge-Protector-Plastic-Mounting-Kit-IG2240-PK/303171187

[mwester]

7 hours ago, hlaiii said:

...I thought that "surge protectors" were Insteon communication signal "traps", and that was the whole reason to put UPS devices and surge protectors each behind a FilterLinc?  This was a factor in my decision to originally abandon the thought of a whole house surge protector....

Actually, no it's not the surge suppressor that causes issues with Insteon's power-line signal -- it's the units that add some form of filtering in addition to surge suppression that are the issue.  These are generally more expensive, and usually very clearly marketed as "noise filtering" in addition to surge suppression.

[Brian H]

I had a plug strip with surge suppression. They also had a nice .1uF AC rated capacitor from Line to Neutral to remove noise. The capacitor sucked up both X10 and Insteon power line signals. Removed the capacitor and all is fine now.

[paulbates]

Actually, no it's not the surge suppressor that causes issues with Insteon's power-line signal -- it's the units that add some form of filtering in addition to surge suppression that are the issue.  These are generally more expensive, and usually very clearly marketed as "noise filtering" in addition to surge suppression.

This has been my experience. The lower end intermatic has worked and did not interfere with x10 or Insteon

Paul


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