Troubleshooting guidelines?

[simplextech]

23 minutes ago, kclenden said:

Linking in Multi-Scene Mode 1) Move Open/Close Sensor magnet away from main case, putting it in open state If Open/Close Sensor was closed, LED will blink once 2) Link desired responders for when Open/Close Sensor opens (scene 1). See Make Open/Close Sensor a Controller. Scene 1 will activate whenever Open/Close Sensor is opened. The Set button toggle sending ON between Scene 1 and Scene 2 when tapped (while Open/Close Sensor is opened). 3) Move Open/Close Sensor magnet close to main case, putting it in closed state Open/Close Sensor status LED will blink once 4) Link desired responders for when Open/Close Sensor opens (scene 2) Scene 2 will activate whenever Open/Close Sensor is closed. The Set button toggle sending ON between Scene 1 and Scene 2 when tapped (while Open/Close Sensor is opened). 5) Test that responders are working as expected by opening and closing your door or window Scene 1 will activate when door or window is opened and scene 2 will activate when closed

I must be doing something wrong as this is not working for me.  I was very hopeful this would work and I'm hoping it does and I'm doing it wrong

New sensor on my desk that I just added to try this with....

• Linked sensor into ISY
• Created a scene for ON and one for Null
• This is probably where I'm screwing up...
  • Put the sensor into linking mode
    • Add sensor as controller to On scene
    • Added a light to the scene
    • Pressed the set button
    • Closed the sensor
    • Can't add the same node to the Null scene as it's already in a scene as a controller.  Added the 'Closed' node
    • Added the light
    • Pressed the set button
  • Same on/off of the On scene controlling the light open turns on close turns off.

 

Please tell me I'm doing something wrong I'm sooo hopeful.

[kclenden]

Well, the multi-scene section is missing from the 1.9 and later manual, so it's probably just a capability that Smarthome took out for some reason.

Or, it could be that it never worked with the ISY, but if you directly link the sensor to a switch (without using the ISY) then it might work.

So you might factory reset the sensor and two switches, and then try linking them manually to see if you can get the multi-scene mode to work.  Even if you can, that would leave you with the dilemma of whether to leave scenes in the sensor and switches that the ISY doesn't know about.

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, kclenden said:

Even if you can, that would leave you with the dilemma of whether to leave scenes in the sensor and switches that the ISY doesn't know about.

This I can see becoming a problem and with the long term purpose to cover 5 external doors and switches to the deck.  I just got done reading through the current manual as well from Smarthome.com and yeah there's nothing in it about the multi-scene.  I really wish that worked!

[kclenden]

Just now, simplextech said:

I really wish that worked!

It does seem like a really useful feature.  I wonder what would happen if you tried linking a sensor to the ISY twice.  First without the magnet and then with the magnet.  Would that activate the "multi-scene" mode on the sensor?

[simplextech]

9 minutes ago, kclenden said:

It does seem like a really useful feature.  I wonder what would happen if you tried linking a sensor to the ISY twice.  First without the magnet and then with the magnet.  Would that activate the "multi-scene" mode on the sensor?

Hmmm... worth trying.  I have "test" about to run at 23:30 for a program doing a scene adjustment.  I don't want to do anything that will interfere with it.  Afterwards I'll try the linking twice open/closed and see if anything changes.

It is still odd that it creates two nodes for the device by default...

[kclenden]

5 minutes ago, simplextech said:

It is still odd that it creates two nodes for the device by default...

That's one reason it seems like the key is to somehow tell the sensor to activate multi-scene mode.  But I'm not really hopeful.

[kclenden]

Looks like @Teken requested the multi-scene capability two years ago.  Don't know if it was ever added to the enhancement list by UDI.  Not even sure if it's a mode that still exists in the sensor.  But if it is, any chance it's an option (as well cancelling "send cleanup messages") that you can set using HS3?  Then without doing a reset, link the sensor to the ISY?

 

 

[simplextech]

24 minutes ago, kclenden said:

That's one reason it seems like the key is to somehow tell the sensor to activate multi-scene mode.  But I'm not really hopeful.

Nope... just ignores the second add/link attempt.

Well my scene adjust for a motion controlled scene sorta works.  Because the MSII is on battery the write "fails" although the scene is adjusted.  But because of the fail every further ISY "change" is drastically slowed because of the continual attempts to write to the MSII.  Ultimately I think I need to run power to these MSII's but if a scene adjust would/could work on battery properly that would just be awesome.

 

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, kclenden said:

Looks like @Teken requested the multi-scene capability two years ago.  Don't know if it was ever added to the enhancement list by UDI.  Not even sure if it's a mode that still exists in the sensor.  But if it is, any chance it's an option (as well cancelling "send cleanup messages") that you can set using HS3?  Then without doing a reset, link the sensor to the ISY?

 

Nice find!  Hey @Michel Kohanim any update on the multi-scene?

I'll see what options are presented in HS3 for these sensors.

[kclenden]

16 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Because the MSII is on battery the write "fails" although the scene is adjusted.

When do you try updating the scene.  If it's right after the MS II senses motion, then the scene update should work.  If it's based on a specific time, then you'd have to be real lucky and have had the motion sense also detect motion (or send a heartbeat) for it to work.

16 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Ultimately I think I need to run power to these MSII's

Since the MS II will accept USB power, you could get a small USB battery designed for use with phones, and use that to power the MS II.  Heck, the smaller USB batteries are probably as small as the MS II and could be easily mounted right next to it, and my guess is that even a small USB battery would last a really long time.  I have one of my MS II's plugged into a USB meter that shows voltage and amperage and it currently shows 5.15v and 0.00a.  It was a cheap meter bought off Amazon so I'm sure it's not super accurate, but it does indicate a really small current even when the MS II knows it's not on battery.

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, kclenden said:

Tue 03/05/2019 23:39:24 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 47.FC.4F 11.01.01 CF 06 00 (00)

Tue 03/05/2019 23:39:24 : [Std-Group ] 47.FC.4F-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Tue 03/05/2019 23:39:24 : [INST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.

I haven't found any documentation on the "06" command, so what I write next is my guess based on the "to address" and "flags" contained in the data as well as some testing.

Finally found documentation on the "06" message.  It's a group broadcast message success report.  It reports the number of devices included in the cleanup (in this case "01") and how many failed cleanups there were (in this case "00").  The documentation doesn't really say what should be done with the information, but clearly the ISY is ignoring it so if you could turn them off, it doesn't seem like you would be missing anything.

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, simplextech said:

I've also read that there "should" be software configuration ability with these for the On-Only functionality?

Found an "Insteon Developer Notes - Open/Close Sensor (2843-xxx)" document but it's dated 2013.  It says it was tested with Firmware Version 89.  It shows a command to set the configuration of the sensor with control over the following:

bit 0 = Cleanup Report (Default: On)
bit 1 = Don’t Read the Jumper (Default: On)
bit 2 = 2 Groups (Default: Off)
bit 3 = Repeat Open (Default: Off)
bit 4 = Repeat Closed (Default: Off)
bit 5 = LED On/Off (Default: On)
bit 6 = Link to FF Group (Default: On)
bit 7 = Programming Lock (Default: Off)

It's six years out of date, and those defaults don't seem to match your sensor (i.e. your sensor clearly repeats Open and Closed messages), so who knows if the sensor even still supports this command.  The fact that the ISY doesn't allow these options to be set leads me to believe the sensor no longer supports the command or Smarthome changed the configuration setup and never provided UDI with updated documentation leaving UDI with the choice to reverse engineer the new configuration options or just leave them out.

I think what you'd want is to be able to turn on the "2 Groups" bit which would then have it send the ON to one group and the OFF to a second group.

[Brian H]

Most of the Developers Notes are dated now. After the Developers Group I had paid for and joined was closed. The notes where made public for awhile and you can still do a web search and find them.

If there is a new Developers Group that I am not aware of. I suspect it would be covered by an NDA as I was before the original  was closed.

I would not count on everything in them to be accurate. Some even had errors after releasing them and engineering changes may have never gotten to the notes.

[simplextech]

9 hours ago, kclenden said:

Since the MS II will accept USB power, you could get a small USB battery designed for use with phones, and use that to power the MS II.  Heck, the smaller USB batteries are probably as small as the MS II and could be easily mounted right next to it, and my guess is that even a small USB battery would last a really long time.  I have one of my MS II's plugged into a USB meter that shows voltage and amperage and it currently shows 5.15v and 0.00a.  It was a cheap meter bought off Amazon so I'm sure it's not super accurate, but it does indicate a really small current even when the MS II knows it's not on battery.

A note for you and others about the use of a battery bank.  I have tested this theory and the normal general use phone charger battery banks like the Anker line are not appropriate for this use.  The problem is the batteries themselves have a sleep mode that is activated if the current draw is too low.  They are designed to be awake and to charge a device and then to sleep when the device is charged.

In testing the MSII power draw is so low when in idle mode that the battery bank also goes to sleep and stops powering the MSII.  Since the MSII now has no power at all it can't wake the battery.

There are battery banks out there designed for this that come from the photography and remote sensor uses.  Voltaic is a brand I've tested that has an "Always On" feature of their battery bank and they work well with the MSII.  The "small" unit I tested with is about the size of a phone though so it's not the best thing to stick on your wall next to the MSII.  However they can be hidden using a long enough USB cable.  The life of the small unit I tested was only a few days before the battery was at 1 bar of power left.  I would suspect in a low traffic area or use case the time would be extended.  The practical use of these is limited and a spare would be needed to swap out during the charging cycle.

[kclenden]

10 hours ago, Brian H said:

I would not count on everything in them to be accurate. Some even had errors after releasing them and engineering changes may have never gotten to the notes.

This is what I suspected, thus my comment about UDI maybe having to reverse engineer.  No company, even really big ones, can sustain itself if it constantly has to reverse engineer the products to which it's trying to interface.

[kclenden]

7 hours ago, simplextech said:

The life of the small unit I tested was only a few days before the battery was at 1 bar of power left. 

Interesting.  With a draw so small that it doesn't register on my USB meter, and doesn't register enough to keep the Anker line of chargers active, it seems strange that your small unit would lose so much charge in only a few days.

[simplextech]

7 minutes ago, kclenden said:

Interesting.  With a draw so small that it doesn't register on my USB meter, and doesn't register enough to keep the Anker line of chargers active, it seems strange that your small unit would lose so much charge in only a few days.

I did not actively monitor the battery duration so take that with a grain of salt.  I was more interested in functional validity that the battery would stay always-on as per product details and if the MSII would continue functioning.  I left it for a few days not sure exactly could have been a week or more as I tend to lose track of time recently with being busy.