Outdoor module randomly turning on

[IcyKettle]

tl;dr I might have damaged an outdoor module with surges from a power saw. How can I be sure?

Devices:

• ISY 994i/IR PRO (1110); firmware 5.0.13D
• PLM (no other powerline networks, ethernet or otherwise)
• 2 outdoor modules
• 2 lamp modules (1 linked to the ISY, the other linked locally to a on/off toggle switch)
• On/off toggle switch
• 8 scene remote

I installed two outdoor modules to control 4 exterior fence light strings. 2 per module. The modules are on two different 15A circuits, but on the same phase. On the same circuit as Module B is my detached garage, where I have some power tools. But the module isn't downstream of the garage. They are on different branches. I don't know where they join up...somewhere in the house.

Both modules (and the programs controlling them) worked without issue for the first couple of days. Then on day 4 or so, I did some cuts on my miter saw. It wasn't until my 3rd or 4th cut that I glanced over and realized Module B's lights were on. Long story short...the spike from the saw was obviously triggering Module B to turn on. I unplugged it and continued working, and later started researching how I could deal with this in the short term (via snubbers, etc.).

Either later that day or maybe the next day, Module B began turning on by itself randomly. In fact, it happened a few times while I sat on the couch, reading articles about how to deal with this. The lights would also randomly cut on in the middle of the night. No random OFF events. Only ON.

As a test, I removed the modules from the ISY, swapped their locations, re-added them, and created an email notification program for debugging. I had zero errant events all week. Which was odd. I expected either of the modules to act up at least once.

Yesterday, I had to do some more cuts, so I made sure to unplug Module A (now on the garage circuit) beforehand. Plugged it back in later after I was done cutting. By the time I went to bed, everything was normal. 

This morning I wake up and lo and behold, Module B (the one previously affected by the saw, but now on the other circuit) had come on at 2:21am. There's virtually nothing going on in this house at that hour that would cause a surge. Our AC doesn't run at all past 10pm. The only motor turning is our bedroom ceiling fan. But it's always running.

So now, I suspect that the handful of times Module B was triggered by the saw also caused some internal damage, resulting in more errant events. But I can't be sure. 

What's my best method of troubleshooting this? I checked the log, and it jibes with my notification email (says the module kicked on at 2:21am), but that's all it gives me. Is there any way to at least confirm whether the module is reacting to something on the circuit vs. just randomly flipping on itself, possibly due to damage? What can the Event Viewer rule out?

Is it even likely that those few surges from my saw did permanent damage to the module?

Thanks.

UPDATE

It's been raining all morning, btw. That might have something to do with it. Not 5 minutes after I posted this...it happened again. I got a flurry of emails showing Module B had kicked on. I'd just set up a new program to immediately turn it OFF if it turned on outside of the normal program hours (:30 before sunset - 10:30pm). Looks like it turned on 8 times in 2 minutes. Event viewer output here, where you can see it turning on, then immediately off each time as my program does its thing:

Sun 05/12/2019 11:34:46 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

Sun 05/12/2019 11:34:46 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:10 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:10 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:12 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:12 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:14 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:14 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:15 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:16 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:17 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:17 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:18 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:19 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:29 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:29 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:31 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:31 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:37 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:37 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:38 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:39 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:54 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:54 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:55 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:50:55 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:29 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:29 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:30 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:31 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:45 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DON   0

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:45 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:47 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]       ST   0 (uom=100 prec=0)

Sun 05/12/2019 11:52:47 AM : [  4E 6D 48 1]      DOF   0

 

[lilyoyo1]

Factory reset the module and let it sit for a day before adding it back to the isy using the restore feature to see if it turns on/off by itself

[IcyKettle]

2 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Factory reset the module and let it sit for a day before adding it back to the isy using the restore feature to see if it turns on/off by itself

Will do, thanks for the suggestion.

Is letting it sit for a day a known solution to issues like this?

[lilyoyo1]

Letting it sit doesn't fix anything. I like to do that to make sure the hardware by itself isn't doing anything. Once added to a system it can be errant commands from scenes or programs causing problems. This just eliminates the software from the equation

[IcyKettle]

Gotcha. Thanks.

Yeah my setup is so bare bones so far, I can't imagine it's anything coming from the ISY. I have one simple program controlling one simple scene.

My hunch is has something to do with the saw. Hopefully it's not permanent.

While I have you... Another question....

Whenever I move the module to another outlet, even on the same circuit, I start to get communication errors, even tho commands will still make it thru. Is there a way to manually update links, or do I have to remove and re-add devices if I want to physically move them?

Thanks!

[lilyoyo1]

You don't have to do anything when you move the device. Since you don't have many devices, the most likely culprit is distance/phases. Having additional devices to repeat signals will help alleviate that probably.

Insteon as is zwave is a mesh network. The more devices you have the stronger the system. 

[kclenden]

You didn't give the model number of the outdoor module, but assuming it's the 2634-222, perhaps its "load sensing" has been activated and something on the circuit is causing enough current draw to cause it to sense a load.  Perhaps the rain is causing a short somewhere?  Anyway, the manual talks about activating/deactivating load sensing, though lilyoyo1's recommendation to factory reset the device should also deactivate the load sensing if it's been activated.

[IcyKettle]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You don't have to do anything when you move the device. Since you don't have many devices, the most likely culprit is distance/phases. Having additional devices to repeat signals will help alleviate that probably.

Insteon as is zwave is a mesh network. The more devices you have the stronger the system. 

Yeah you're probably right that it's just a lack of devices. At least I hope so. It didn't occur to me that I'd have to repair or recreate links when moving a single device to another outlet. On the same circuit, no less. Glad to hear that's not normal.

BTW, my entire Insteon network is on my B phase. Even the locally-linked toggle switch + lamp dimmer. I didn't plan it that way, it's just how it's worked out so far. Cheers and thanks again for the help.

[IcyKettle]

3 hours ago, kclenden said:

You didn't give the model number of the outdoor module, but assuming it's the 2634-222, perhaps its "load sensing" has been activated and something on the circuit is causing enough current draw to cause it to sense a load.  Perhaps the rain is causing a short somewhere?  Anyway, the manual talks about activating/deactivating load sensing, though lilyoyo1's recommendation to factory reset the device should also deactivate the load sensing if it's been activated.

 

Yep, that's the one.

I wondered about load sense, but I just couldn't imagine what could possibly trigger it at 2:20 am, when this house is dead quiet. And the fact that this phenomenon followed this particular module from its original outlet on one circuit, to another outlet on a completely separate circuit. Then you add in the fact that it didn't experience any errant events until I unknowingly goosed it with my miter saw.

However, now I'm wondering if when my miter saw caused it to toggle on, it was only responding to the power surges as a result of load sensing. And not just as a matter of interference. I think that's worth a test, now that I've factory reset it and LS should definitely be off. Who knows, maybe LS was on the whole time and that's what made it behave so erratically.

I forgot to mention that on both modules, I'm using outdoor LED dimmer modules to control the brightness of the bistro lights. So that's another factor I'll have to rule out if this keeps up. ?

In the meantime, it's been hooked up inside, with no load, and I haven't yet seen any phantom events. I'm going to let it sit overnight and see what happens.

Thanks for the help. Cheers.