Somfy integration - URTSii or ZRTSi ?

[Dean]

The nodeserver is running on the Polisy and is connected to the serial port. Michel helped me acquire and set the admin rights for the Polisy so that I could get access to the serial port. The nodeserver issues the commands from ISY and the log shows that everything looks to be communicating. However, nothing happens at the shades. However, when I control them from the front of the Somfy box, they respond with no problem. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Dean]

Michel has confirmed that everything is matching up with pins, baud rate, etc. Still, that doesn't mean that we have something that was overlooked.

[Brad]

Ah, ok.  I haven't messed with using the serial interface with the Somfy nodeserver for this very reason.  The only thing I can suggest is to plug in a serial monitor on that port to see what exactly, if anything, is being sent out on that serial port.

You may have to do some research/work on determining if you need a crossed or straight through cable too.  It was quite a while ago that I hooked up my ITachFlex WiFi to Serial gizmo to the URTSII but I'm vaguely recalling I had to work through that problem.

 

[TDay]

On 7/3/2019 at 5:49 PM, CPRail1 said:

All, 

We're having new Somfy RTS blinds installed and I'm wondering which of the interfaces people find better to use  - the older URTSii or the newer ZRTSi ? 

I'm running an ISY 994i/IR PRO @ v.5.0.15A. 

I've read through all the threads with "Somfy" in them but having not yet dived into programing and the like beyond the typical scenes and programs I'm honestly not sure which would be the group's recommendation for the simplest and/or better choice. 

I would really appreciate advice as to which of the interfaces any of you have found works best in the ISY world. 

Cheers, Peter

Hey Peter,

Having just completed setting up all my Somfy window blinds, I felt like I needed to chime in on your question.  A few years ago Somfy introduced the Autoview and Easyview motors as a replacement for the RTS motors.  Whereas you ordered you blinds about the same time as I ordered mine, you may not need an interface.  The good news is Autoview are Z-Wave devices directly compatible with the ISY-994 (with the Z-wave option).  There is the possibility that your blinds have the easyview motors, in which case they are not compatible with the ISY and Somfy isn't aware of any compatible hubs.  Let me know if I can help you out any further.

[CPRail1]

11 minutes ago, TDay said:

Hey Peter,

Having just completed setting up all my Somfy window blinds, I felt like I needed to chime in on your question.  A few years ago Somfy introduced the Autoview and Easyview motors as a replacement for the RTS motors.  Whereas you ordered you blinds about the same time as I ordered mine, you may not need an interface.  The good news is Autoview are Z-Wave devices directly compatible with the ISY-994 (with the Z-wave option).  There is the possibility that your blinds have the easyview motors, in which case they are not compatible with the ISY and Somfy isn't aware of any compatible hubs.  Let me know if I can help you out any further.

Hi TDay,

Now that is intriguing !  I have had 20 blinds, of two different lengths and motors, set up now for about 8 months, controlling them through the ZRTSi via Zwave and the ISY. They've worked reliably with the one disappointment that they are either full up or full down. The ZRTSI / ISY combination apparently doesn't understand the more capable position and "stop now" commands that the native Somfy hand held can do with the same sets of blinds.

But I digress. That is an interesting development with the Autoview and the Easyview. I actually have several of the blinds disassembled right now so I'll check out the motors and see if I can see the name on them.   I'm currently trying figure out a less awkward charging set up - we're using battery and the installer brilliantly mounted the battery so the charging port/connection is inaccessible without taking the whole things apart so I'm investigating making my own JST pigtails.

We are pondering adding additional blinds as we love the convenience. so I'll definitely keep my ears/eyes open for anything on the Autoview.

Thank you for adding  ! Cheers, Peter

[jfai]

The Z-Wave Somfy interface is limited. As mentioned, "stop" and "My" commands are not supported.

That was one reason I decided to use the Somfy myLink devices with RTS motors instead - see previous posts in this thread.

[Dean]

I've abandoned the Somfy URTSii, as the commands never seemed to go through the serial port of the Polisy, although I have not confirmed the serial port on either device is working properly. @Michel Kohanim worked with me to try and get the URTSii working, but he did all he could. Perhaps, he has some ideas on this post.

Instead, I purchased the z-wave version Somfy ZRTSii and included it into the ISY. This options are very funky. Sort of like Bizzaro world, but it might be simple if I could find documentation on Somfy's definitions of fade up, fade down, etc. I've posted an image of the ISY Admin console for one channel. You have to create channels in the ZRTSii through the device and include them just as you would with a z-wave device.

Perhaps, a node server can be written for Polisy that controls the ZRTSii as the one currently controls the URTSii. Can the current node server be modified to accomodate the Z? I see that Brian Feeney wrote the nodeserver currently available, but I couldn't find his handle, so perhaps he will see this and comment.

It's interesting that from the admin screen, you can click the "fade" button and the blinds go the "MY" position just as it does when you use the tellis remote. However, it does not work that way when you're trying to use this command in a program. I've attached another image of the options for the Fade command in the Program creation screen. You will see that there are 5 options (I don't understand these options) that are not available for the Fade command from the main Admin screen. You can not get the Direction option to disappear so you could run only the Fade command without the direction. When using it in either direction it opens or closes all the way, depending upon where the blinds are when you issue the command. There is also a "None" option in the direction, but it also moves the blinds from all the way closed bottom to all the way closed top.

I've played with many options and finally gotten the code below to consistently put the blinds open to the middle position. My comments below the code should explain how it works. By the way, I have a left and right window and want to open and close them individually, so they're not on the same channel.

Now, someone PLEASE explain to me "WHY" it works, because I just don't get it.

Office Shades Left Open Test

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Set 'Somfy Z-Wave / ZW 037 Somfy Ch2 Office Left' Off
        Wait  4 seconds
        Set 'Somfy Z-Wave / ZW 037 Somfy Ch2 Office Left' Fade Up in 2 seconds
        Set 'Somfy Z-Wave / ZW 037 Somfy Ch2 Office Left' Fade Stop
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 
The first command closes the blinds to the bottom, as that gives you a starting point at the same point each time the program is run. The Off command closes them all the way, while the On command opens them all the way to the top.
The wait command provides enough time for the first command to run before running the third line. The ZRTSii doesn't seem to finish a command before issuing the next, so the wait.
The Fade Up command starts the blinds opening with a ramp rate of 2 seconds.
The Fade Stop command stops the blinds at the mid point.

This has been tried with a wait command before fade stop with no ramp rate and is not consistent.
It has been tried with no ramp rate in the Fade Up command is not consistent.

This command has been tried in the reverse and works similarly, meaning the blinds are opened up to the top the next command is fade down.

 

EDIT: I have now learned that I can use the "Fade Stop" command to move the blinds to the "MY" position that was set with the remote. At least it works for now.

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Dean
Add updated finding on using the Fade Stop command

[GSpitale01]

I just had some outdoor roller shades with Somy control system installed, so I'm looking for the best way to make them "smart" and came across this thread.

I can't tell which system is the best way to go ... is there any update on the ZRTSI method with the recent ISY z-wave updates?

[Dean]

I would definitely go with Z-wave. I'm pleased with the way mine are working. 

[CPRail1]

Gspitale,

As you'll see earlier in the thread I went with the ZRTSI via the ISY's z-wave and I'm very happy with it. EditOne downside is that, at least as far as I've been able to learn, it only supports the blinds as full up, or full down. You cannot stop midway nor have a 'favorite' setting as the Somfy handheld allows. The two both work independently of each other so when my wife wants a specific location, she uses the handheld, when the automation is just putting everything down automatically such as across our very hot mid afternoon sun, the system does it.

Edit - As Dean noted in his edit above and I just independently discoverered myself, the "fade stop" command does stop the blinds wherever they are while in motion. 

I do own a Polisy but I've not yet tackled doing anything with the blinds. I'm very interested in seeing how others progress though.

Also, if curious, there are Somfy blinds that are now natively zigbee and z-wave with no need of the ZRTSI. They were not applicable in my case as they didn't support the battery option we prefer in several of our installations. In case you're curious, here are some comments on them between myself and an industry contact familiar with them.

Zigbee:

"Question – From a networking perspective I’d have a cleaner and more reliable connection to the blinds if they supported Zigbee, thus allowing communication over the Eero 6 mesh which blankets the house. Also, the less competing networks, the better. The Somfy site indicates they have a Zigbee solution. https://www.somfysystems.com/en-us/discover-somfy/power-technology/zigbee  .

Ans:

The two Zigbee modules on the link referenced from Somfy are for a completely different type of motor.  These interfaces pertain to their SDN (Somfy Digital Network) Motors which required dedicated power to each motor.  They don’t support Battery Powered Motors.

At some point in 2021, Somfy will be releasing a Battery Powered Motor with a Zigbee module.  Detailed specifications have not been released yet and I’m not sure of the minimum window shade width for these motor.  If I recall some of the motors you have currently in your home have to have an external battery pack due to the narrow window width.  But Somfy saying 2021 could be March or December.  They test and test and test before they release product to the market.  Based on the limited amount of email from Somfy about this upcoming system, I think it will be the second half of next year. 

Z-wave

 Also, there is a z-wave solution built by Somfy but not needing the ZRTsi. These are being sold through a third party who, I gather, contracted Somfy to build for them. Here is what I've learned on that.

"Subject: Re: BaliBlinds Customer Support [#584742]

 Hello Peter,
Our AutoView motorized shades are Zwave.  You can read more about the Zwave motorization on our website www.Motorization.Support. "

And my contact's thoughts

 " Bali is the same as Graber.  Springs Windows Fashions is the parent company of both.  The Graber Brand is marketed through the Customer Dealer Distribution Channel and the Bali Brand is marketed through the Lowe’s Warehouse Distribution channel.  AutoView is the Bali name and VirtualCord is the Graber name, but it is an Z-Wave embedded motor manufactured by Somfy for Graber/Bali.  This is the motor we have experienced the premature battery drain and quality issues and as such, we have decided not to use it on projects.  But nonetheless, Graber/Bali/Springs will not sell motors without purchasing a complete shade.  In our opinion, the Somfy RTS motor is still the best option until the technology is improved with the Z-Wave embedded motor.  "

I can only directly comment on the ZRTSI solution as that's the one I've used. The above two add ons are just some of the things I've learned in the interim as I watch the market. We so love the automated blinds so much that, eventually, we will do many more in the house. Your milage may vary.

Cheers, Peter

Edited November 15, 2020 by CPRail1
Change in what I understand

[GSpitale01]

Thanks CPRail1 / Peter - helpful info.

I did read your post / setup and the limitations of up / down without the intermediate step.  I was going down the ZRTSI path, and figuring out the hardware list when I saw that - it gives me pause.  I would like to have the additional control options that seem to be there with the myLink / URTSi option. 

The URTSi option, from what I can tell, also has the added benefit of independent channel control.  I have the blinds on all 3 exposed sides of my outdoor living area, and I would like to be able to (1) raise and lower them each independently and (2) have at least up / down / intermediate control capability build into the control system. 

[jfai]

@gspitaleDo you already have the blinds and motors installed? The motors dictate the remote control options - unless you want to replace the control module plugged into the motor ($$$). So, if you want direct Z-wave control of the motor, you do not need the ZRTSI, but your motors need to have a Z-Wave control module. If you have RTS motors, you have the option of ZRTSI, URTSII, or myLink, but not direct Z-Wave.

47 minutes ago, gspitale said:

I would like to be able to (1) raise and lower them each independently and (2) have at least up / down / intermediate control capability build into the control system.

Unless I misunderstand your requirement, this can be done with all remote control options. A channel is a set of motors. Motors can be in any number of channels. Additionally, myLink has the concept of scenes. A myLink scene is a set of motor-position combinations. With myLink you can also define schedules for your scenes - no ISY programming required. I used that for a while until my shade/curtains automation "requirements" grew beyond just time-of-day conditions. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by jfai

[GSpitale01]

Yes, my blinds and motors are installed, and they are RTS.

So my question was essentially ZRTSI vs URTSII - or recently developed options that I have not found yet.  I was asking if there were other options and/or pros/cons that I haven't thought of.

The URTSII option requires one Somfy RTS interface, and the Somfy Polyglot node server.  An okay option it seems since the URTSII interface is multi channel and I believe has the intermediate position control.

The ZRTSI option requires an interface module for each channel, and only the ISY994 w/Z-wave.  I like the Z-wave "native" integration in the ISY, but I found our through this thread about the lack of the intermediate position ... unless some recent developments have solved that.

I have ISY994i w/Zwave, Polisy hardware, Amazon Echo, and the iTach IP2IR for a whole bunch of other things - was trying to see what offered the most flexibility and control so that I can integrate it into the rest of my control schema.

[Brad]

@gspitale As you probably noted earlier in this thread I'm using the iTach IP to serial with the URTSII.  It functions perfectly until I get a power outage.  After that, I just have to manually open or close the drapes by pushing a button on the URTSII.  It's almost like the URTSII loses it's mind and doesn't respond on the serial line until it gets "poked".  Other than that and the short range required between the URTSII and the motor, using it with the Somfy nodeserver (which I just recently migrated off my RPi onto Polisy) works great with ISY/Alexa control.

 

[GSpitale01]

Thanks Brad.  

Can you give more info on your physical connection between Polisy and the URTSii?

[Brad]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:17 AM, gspitale said:

Thanks Brad.  

Can you give more info on your physical connection between Polisy and the URTSii?

There is no physical connection between Polisy and the URTSII.  Here is how I have it set up:

• Polisy with Somfy node server communicating via the network
• An iTach Flex WiFi module is the target of the communication from the node server.  This module receives commands from the Somfy node server to open/close curtains.
• The iTach module has a serial interface built into it that I plugged into an ethernet port in my home run closet.
• The URTSII is in the room with my drapes and plugged into the other end of the ethernet run from the closet.  I tried leaving the URTSII in the closet but it was too far from the drapes and too many intervening walls.

You can use a regular ethernet run to push serial data.  I believe the iTach came with a couple versions of cable (crossed, not crossed), but I can't really remember at this point.  All I remember is looking at the pinout at one point.  I may have even made my own cable with the proper wire order to go between the URTSII and ethernet wall jack.

So, in summary:

Polisy with Somfy node server configured for network commands => iTach => URTSII => Drape Motor