Power failure: ISY not working

[Mustang65]

Had a power failure at 12:26AM. Everything seems to have rebooted OK, except or my ISY994I. I tried to log into ISY but the find ISY came up blank. So I tried to add the URL back in, with no luck... "Could not find" message. I have a power light and no flashing data RX or TX or Memory lights. Tried rebooting ISY through Polisy, no luck. I cleared the Java cash and reloaded the java thing. No luck. Pinged ISY and no success their either. UN-plugged ISY and the power light came on again. Pinged ISY again with no success. Dead in the water.

SD card issue? Should still be accessible and ping able.
Any thoughts?

 

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

Had a power failure at 12:26AM. Everything seems to have rebooted OK, except or my ISY994I. I tried to log into ISY but the find ISY came up blank. So I tried to add the URL back in, with no luck... "Could not find" message. I have a power light and no flashing data RX or TX or Memory lights. Tried rebooting ISY through Polisy, no luck. I cleared the Java cash and reloaded the java thing. No luck. Pinged ISY and no success their either. UN-plugged ISY and the power light came on again. Pinged ISY again with no success. Dead in the water.

SD card issue? Should still be accessible and ping able.
Any thoughts?

 

Router DHCP failure? Sometimes my router previously would not reconnect with some equipment when they all reboot at the same time. At times a reboot wouldn't do it...I had to power cycle it. My ISY usually reconnected better than some pieces of equipment, especially thermostats. It is better now with dozens of firmware upgrades now, and switching to ecobee thermostats.

Edited April 1, 2020 by larryllix

[Mustang65]

I hit the reset button and now I can ping it. I cleared the Java cache, did the My ISY from the UDI website, I get the ISY Finder, enter my URL and it comes back and says "can not find it".

Just to verify, I enter [ http://ip address/desc ] also tried https..... same response. Everything else, (3) Arduino's, (2) Pi's, Security electronics all came back up perfectly. Just the ISY did not. The lights all did their flashing when it booted up. Have to try and find some of those posts regarding the ISY finder .

Wife will not be happy when things do not automatically happen

still stumped!

Edited April 1, 2020 by Mustang65

[Mustang65]

Was not expecting this at all. It was the 5 volt power supply. Replaced it with an extra one that I had and I was able to access ISY as soon as it booted.

ISY is up and running again. I need to purchase a few more 5 volt power supplies, of the good kind. Here it is 11PM, dark outside and I am replacing the power supply to the ISY that is located out by the service panel on the back of the house. Glad my neighbors were asleep, I am allergic to lead.

Tomorrow, back to trying to install my first node server for ecobee.

Thanks for you input

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Mustang65

[Brian H]

I had a similar thing happen to me. In my case there was an added clue. The Power On LED on the supply was pulsing.

The ISY994i has a range of voltages it can use.

Right now if you get a replacement supply directly from UDI. It is a 12 Volt 1 Amp wall wart.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Brian H

[Mustang65]

I went through my cabinet box of power supplies and found one for an extra Wi-Fi modem (5VDC) 2 amp model UL approved and replaced it with that one. Will go on line today and order a few more 2 amp models for backup.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

I went through my cabinet box of power supplies and found one for an extra Wi-Fi modem (5VDC) 2 amp model UL approved and replaced it with that one. Will go on line today and order a few more 2 amp models for backup.

A 9v or 12v power supply, as @Brian H pointed out above may have more noise resistance and better filter capacitor life.

[Brian H]

My assortment of UDI power supplies. ISY26,ISY99i and two ISY994i controllers. Where 5 volt either 1amp or 500mA.

Sounds like you found a good 5 volt replacement. I would imagine they would be fine.

[Teken]

18 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

Was not expecting this at all. It was the 5 volt power supply. Replaced it with an extra one that I had and I was able to access ISY as soon as it booted.

ISY is up and running again. I need to purchase a few more 5 volt power supplies, of the good kind. Here it is 11PM, dark outside and I am replacing the power supply to the ISY that is located out by the service panel on the back of the house. Glad my neighbors were asleep, I am allergic to lead.

Tomorrow, back to trying to install my first node server for ecobee.

Thanks for you input

 

If you haven't done so already place the ISY Series Controller on a quality UPS. 

[Mustang65]

5 hours ago, Teken said:

If you haven't done so already place the ISY Series Controller on a quality UPS. 

It is a little difficult to install a UPS on the back outside wall. I do have whole house surge protection and the green LED is still shining today, but I do not have much faith in that indicator. Upgrading the whole house surge protection system is on my list to be done before the summer storms arrive. 

I am just about finished with the Battery/SOLAR battery and back up/UPS for all the HA and EM systems, by the service panel. Includes 260Ah deep cycle batteries (12Volts) from my RV which I just purchased new batteries for. I know overkill, but they needed a new job. I have a 250 watt SOLAR panel with a MPPT SOLAR charge controller for keeping the battery charged and supplying power to the HA/EM systems on those sunny days. Each of the inputs will power a 12VDC to 5VDC (5amp) Buck converter that will be connected to the UPS circuit board. The 2nd PCB holds the buck converters and MOV's.

An 110VAC 10Amp 20VDC power supply is the other source of power. I have the PCB board version 1 up and running and there is minimal voltage drop when I disconnect either of the power sources. There are a bunch of changes to Version 2 of this board. Hope to get this up and running by the weekend, providing the back/leg pain subsides a little.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Mustang65

[simplextech]

9 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

It is a little difficult to install a UPS on the back outside wall.

I know this is a little overkill just for the ISY.... but I think it's a whole lot easier...

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-Outlets-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=cyberpower+ups&qid=1585884318&sr=8-3

 

[Mustang65]

That would be great, except for that equipment would be outside and the constant outages that are over 30 minutes. The last one (2 days ago) lasted an hour and a half and when Duke sent the first text stating that the outage was going to last until 4:30AM which was almost 5 hours. The UPS stopped working in less than a 30 minutes. We were without power for 6 hours a few months ago as Duke was changing out some high-voltage equipment about a mile from our house. That sub-station is constantly undergoing equipment changes, rumor has it from lightning strikes, as we are in Florida. With this setup, so long as there is daylight and the batteries are OK, the circuits will keep running and I will not have to worry about constant reboots. Oh, and this does not include the many short power interruptions (1 minute or less) that occur constantly. My electrical drop from the pole to the meter has been checked to insure that there are no lose connections.

This is why I decided to just go with extra parts (SOLAR) and a 12VDC power source with Buck converters that can handle all the HA and EM equipment along with an Arduino and Pi. Also working on a way to get that power back to my SimpliSafe base station as a source for power. The one hurricane we were without power for 4 days or so and I kept changing the batteries every few days. I may just use a 6VDC sealed alarm battery, or 2,   with a small charging circuit to keep it topped off.

The whole house surge protector upgrade is at the top of the priority list.

Those are my reasons for currently going the route that I chose. Down the road I may look at the many different ways of going about this, the one I most like is:

- 1.5K / 2K Pure Sine Wave Inverter w/Built in Solar Controller 50A 24V (add a few more SOLAR panels, Isolate the following AC circuits from the grid and run the fridge, security system (cameras/DVR), SimpliSafe Alarm and a few outside LED security lights, along with these electronics of course. I set up our RV for extended dry-camping and do not need any shore-power to survive in it.   Something like Simplextech suggested, but if I did that, I would take it to the next level. 

Picture of the 12VDC power supply. Currently have one supplying power to all the security cameras for the last 3 years.

[TrojanHorse]

Didn’t read everything here but saw “outside wall” - is anything ISY related outside?

Another good option is to basically build your own 12v UPS. For example I’m using an Altronix 12v power supply / battery charger with a 12Ah dedicated battery. That way you don’t go DC to AC then back to DC. Lots of options to make your own.


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[Mustang65]

9 hours ago, TrojanHorse said:

Didn’t read everything here but saw “outside wall” - is anything ISY related outside?

Another good option is to basically build your own 12v UPS. For example I’m using an Altronix 12v power supply / battery charger with a 12Ah dedicated battery. That way you don’t go DC to AC then back to DC. Lots of options to make your own.


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Yes the ISY, BrulTech GEM, DashBox and Gb switch are outside. They have been there for over 2 years now. Here is the link to my website for the install history and pictures. I am working on one more upgrade to the panel.

The top right side connections on the UPS board (Above picture) are the battery/SOLAR connections and the right side bottom connections are the AC/DC power supply. The left side connections go to the ISY, GEM and DashBox another board like this one has more connections. The 2 blocking diodes allow you to input power from 2 different power sources to the loads. As long as the source voltages are close to each other there is no issue. The Buck converter board I made, has the ability to adjust the power source output voltages, has fuses and more voltage dividers to remotely monitor the voltages and may add parts to remotely monitor the load current also.

Depending on which power supply you want as the primary source of power, you adjust that voltage slightly higher than the other power source voltage. Preliminary tests show a very small voltage drop at the loads when dropping a voltage source. I still need to add two electrolytic capacitors to be a buffer when one power supply drops off. The voltage divider outputs on the boards will connect to a ADC and the output will go to a Pi for remote monitoring.

I will update my website with the new panel and UPS when I finish it.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Mustang65

[Mustang65]

Here we are 6 days later and another DUKE Energy power outage.

This morning I was sitting at my desk in the office and I heard the deep sound of larger trucks going past the house. I looked up at the Security Camera display monitor and there were Duke Energy trucks going past the house, about 4 of them. I thought this isn't good.  About 30 minutes or so later, we were without power for 21 minutes.

I guess this is getting to be a weekly event now. Stepping up the process for finishing the UPS.

[Teken]

Here we are 6 days later and another DUKE Energy power outage.
This morning I was sitting at my desk in the office and I heard the deep sound of larger trucks going past the house. I looked up at the Security Camera display monitor and there were Duke Energy trucks going past the house, about 4 of them. I thought this isn't good.  About 30 minutes or so later, we were without power for 21 minutes.
I guess this is getting to be a weekly event now. Stepping up the process for finishing the UPS.

You can never have enough back up power:




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[larryllix]

3 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

Here we are 6 days later and another DUKE Energy power outage.

This morning I was sitting at my desk in the office and I heard the deep sound of larger trucks going past the house. I looked up at the Security Camera display monitor and there were Duke Energy trucks going past the house, about 4 of them. I thought this isn't good.  About 30 minutes or so later, we were without power for 21 minutes.

I guess this is getting to be a weekly event now. Stepping up the process for finishing the UPS.

What would a running ISY control in a power failure and a dead PLM?

[Mustang65]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

What would a running ISY control in a power failure and a dead PLM?

The main reason for the DIY UPS is because it will keep the HA and EM electronics from constantly rebooting. Most of the time when the power comes back on there are usually 1 or 2 power ups and downs when they are reconnecting the electrical system. So the electronics start to boot and drop of start again.. drop off and... which plays heck on the electronics.

With the DIY UPS the ISY will still be up and running (without AC things working of course), communicating with the Wi-Fi router (Wi-Fi is not active normally) and the Wi-Fi router will be acting as an inexpensive Smart network switch allowing the GEM/DashBox to keep recording all the Energy Management input while still communicating with ISY. There have been a few times where I have had to reboot the ISY and or the GEM/DashBox to get them back to operating normally after a power outage.

Hopefully the UPS will accomplish this! If not it will be back to the drawing board.

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

The main reason for the DIY UPS is because it will keep the HA and EM electronics from constantly rebooting. Most of the time when the power comes back on there are usually 1 or 2 power ups and downs when they are reconnecting the electrical system. So the electronics start to boot and drop of start again.. drop off and... which plays heck on the electronics.

With the DIY UPS the ISY will still be up and running (without AC things working of course), communicating with the Wi-Fi router (Wi-Fi is not active normally) and the Wi-Fi router will be acting as an inexpensive Smart network switch allowing the GEM/DashBox to keep recording all the Energy Management input while still communicating with ISY. There have been a few times where I have had to reboot the ISY and or the GEM/DashBox to get them back to operating normally after a power outage.

Hopefully the UPS will accomplish this! If not it will be back to the drawing board.

I found I had more problems with routers that did not want to heal well with devices. I never found the ISY to be in that category. I found Venstar stats the worst and the router had to be rebooted followed by a complete power cycle of the stats almost every time. Later I discovered soft rebooting a lot of things didn't work  mostly. A few routers and dozens of router upgrades, and a different brand of stats later, things have settled down a  fair bit now. 
I discovered my UPS didn't like the power blinks we get here (rural with high winds) made some equipment reboot and some lasted through it. My router seemed to be especially bad with a 10 cycle grid switch over caused by a 1 second grid blink so I adjusted that to about 3 cycles for UPS switchover.

Yeah I run a 6KW 48V 125Ah battery carry over system but only use it for my router, TV, select lights, and select receptacles but not my ISY. I fear the grid supplied PLM to UPS fed ISY would cause serial port burnouts and I would lose my ISY or PLM on a regular basis....maybe.

Rebooting ISY is a b/tch as there is always something that isn't perfect and it takes a lot of logic sweating. There is always something more.  

 

[Mustang65]

7 hours ago, Teken said:

 

You can never have enough back up power:




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It looks like you have to many in that rack, it would probably be better to send them down here to me?

[Teken]

11 hours ago, Mustang65 said:

It looks like you have to many in that rack, it would probably be better to send them down here to me?

You're probably right about having too many in this short depth server rack. Getting pretty close in max weight capacity but the second short depth server rack is even heavier and almost as tall! ?

If shipping wasn't so crazy expansive from Canada to the USA you might have found at least one coming your way last year!! ?

[Mustang65]

So here it is April 16, about 15 days from our last power outage and a few minutes ago there was a loud explosion. My wife, who was outside said it came from the trail by our street that is located about 50 feet (15m....) from my house. So I walked out to the street and there it was, the power line breakers had popped, which means the transformer which is about 100 yards farther down the trail probably malfunctioned and will probably be replaced. The good part of the story is that these power lines supply power to those living on the other side of the trail, so for once, we did not have to suffer through another power outage. If you look close enough, you can see the tripped breakers.

 

[Teken]

This is similar to what happen to one of the sites I helped manage: 

Tens of thousands of volts was injected into the facility over the course of an hour. The problem(s) which very few people ever address or understand is unlike a voltage surge, voltage sag, a slow increase in line voltage can't be blocked by a standard SPD. Nor can they address a voltage sag condition when present. The vast majority of SPD 1, 2, 3, 4 are designed to shunt and dissipate a voltage surge event to ground or sacrifice itself through what ever inline device whether it be HRC, MOV, Zener, GDT, RCL.

This is why mission critical facilities must use and deploy some kind of voltage regulation or AVR. Even the best online UPS must still be protected at the service entrance by a SPD 1, and the service panel via a SPD 2. All down stream devices *Point of Use* must have a SPD 3 to insure a comprehensive surge protection system. As each type of SPD is rated to operate in a well defined voltage range / speed.

As noted up above all the SPD 1-4 in place at this facility had no benefit as it didn't address slow voltage rise / voltage sags. As all this did was smoke the SPD's and everything else connected to the electrical system. When the transformer like what you see in this video finally let loose tens of thousands of volts (the facility) had no protection and everything that was still connected lit on fire / blew up.

The insurance claim exceeded eight million dollars for the building and the industrial equipment and took that facility off line for more than nine months. More than 35 thousand people lost their jobs which were associated to this facility in some direct / indirect manner.

When dealing with out of band voltage conditions one must try to deal with all possible scenarios the best they can within their financial capability. Injected (radiated) voltage rise is extremely hard to address even when using coils to RCL networks. Installing giant inductors isn't something most people can or willing to do but one only needs to view some of the best in class sites to see they exist and work.

Spark gaping is also a fine science and only addresses very specific conditions and doesn't even address lightning / induced EMF. 

[larryllix]

Those are fuses. When the fusible link blows, the spring retracts and allows the fuse "door" to fall down, making it obviously visible to the lineman. A line surge can be absorbed by the transformer the fuse feeds, when the high voltage saturates the transformer core. This helps limit the high voltage induced into the lines going into your house also. This can cause the fuse(s) to blow sometimes when the transformer acts like a short.. 

There also some  comm antenna on the post so the utility likely knew about it within minutes.

See the small loops in the end of the fuse? The lineman will use a switch stick, a long fibreglass stick with a hook at the end, to close the fuses after replacing the fusible element. This gives him/her some distance from the blast, should the fuse blow again. Some fuses have explosive powder in them to accelerate the speed of the gap widening upon a fault. This reduces arcing in the fuse element. You don't want to be close to them when the explosion happens.

Just looking at Teken's video. That is what happens when the explosive element doesn't fire in a fuse. There was no transformer there, (possibly a "metering unit" with very small transformers/CTs)  just a failing fuse. Underneath was a three phase riser where the phases would go from air gap insulation into insulated conductors to go into the ground somewhere. The insulators have some semi-conductive material inside to adapt the change in impedance from free air conductors to a "shielded" conductors. Sudden impedance changes tend to make lightning and surges reflect back down power lines and cause standing waves, which can increase the voltage of the disturbance.

Edited April 16, 2020 by larryllix

[Mustang65]

Here it is 8 days later and at 5:46AM the bedroom lit up, the house shook and my phone letting me know that the power went out. 1 hour and 42 minutes later it came back on. Just looked at the radar and @asbril is about to get that same weather front in the next few minutes. Good Luck, it was a nasty one.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Mustang65