Bad Switches 2477s

[cherokeesix]

I have been using Insteon for many years and have found it to be generally reliable.

Programming and control is via an ISY 994i, currently on 4.7.5 for both firmware and UI.

This weekend spent many hours (days) Updating my home system with some new SwitchLinke Dual Band 2477s Switches (v.45) just purchased through SmartHome. I had one bad switch that needed to be replaced and since I bought the 5 pack I also replaced some older ICON brand switches that were troublesome now and then. I already have a number of dual band switches around the house and figured adding more will help bullet proof the communications.

It has been a weekend of frustration. These new 2477s switches will not communicate and I now assume the whole batch of 5 is bad in some way. I was able to get them added as new Insteon devices using repeated tries, but they will not update (1011 error) and fail to query most of the time. This has also caused communication problems with what were very reliable existing switches.

Could this be just a bad batch of switches from SmartHome?

Thanks for your advice/suggestions.

-Bill

Edited April 12, 2020 by cherokeesix
typo

[Teken]

I have been using Insteon for many years and have found it to be generally reliable. Programming and control is via an ISY 994i, currently on 4.7.5 for both firmware and UI.

This weekend spent many hours (days) Updating my home system with some new SwitchLinke Dual Band 2477s Switches (v.45) just purchased through SmartHome. I had one bad switch that needed to be replaced and since I bought the 5 pack I also replaced some older ICON brand switches that were troublesome now and then. I already have a number of dual band switches around the house and figured adding more will help bullet proof the communications.

It has been a weekend of frustration. These new 2477s switches will not communicate and I now assume the whole batch of 5 is bad in some way. I was able to get them added as new Insteon devices using repeated tries, but they will not update (1011 error) and fail to query most of the time. This has also caused communication problems with what were very reliable existing switches.

Could this be just a bad batch of switches from SmartHome?

Thanks for your advice/suggestions.

-Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

Sounds more like a noise maker / signal sucker issue. It goes without saying best practices are these:

 

- Hard Reset: Follow the manual as to how to reset the switch to a OEM state. Doing so will ensure test links, programming has been removed along with placing the switch in the default state.

 

- Test Leads: Make yourself a set of test leads. Doing so allows you to add, move, any hardwired device for best reception and trouble shooting.

 

Going this route allows you to plug the switch at the 2413S PLM for the best reception and enrolment.

 

 

 

Delay Writes: If you have a ISY Pro enable this feature. This will allow you to add a device without the controller trying to write to battery operated devices.

 

10101: If there are (existing hardwired) devices with pending writes you need to complete those writes otherwise you will never be able to add a new device as the controller is constantly trying to complete that outstanding task.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cherokeesix]

Thanks for the great tips. I just ordered a new PLM. I had an old one that was not dual band. I'm also adding two range extenders. I think that with the new PLM, the range extenders across the power phases, plus the many dual band switches around the house the Insteon messages should get to the intended device.

My understanding is that dual band devices can and do communicate over the power line and over the "air", and that all devices pass along all messages. A dual band device that cannot communicate over the power line will work as long as it can communicate over the air. Correct?

It is weird that my setup worked fine until replacing old switches with new 2477s switches. One would think that the new switches would have better communication capabilities than the older versions.

- Bill

[Scottmichaelj]

 Hi Bill,
 
Sounds more like a noise maker / signal sucker issue. It goes without saying best practices are these:
 
- Hard Reset: Follow the manual as to how to reset the switch to a OEM state. Doing so will ensure test links, programming has been removed along with placing the switch in the default state.
 
- Test Leads: Make yourself a set of test leads. Doing so allows you to add, move, any hardwired device for best reception and trouble shooting.
 
Going this route allows you to plug the switch at the 2413S PLM for the best reception and enrolment.
 

 

 
Delay Writes: If you have a ISY Pro enable this feature. This will allow you to add a device without the controller trying to write to battery operated devices.
 
10101: If there are (existing hardwired) devices with pending writes you need to complete those writes otherwise you will never be able to add a new device as the controller is constantly trying to complete that outstanding task.
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I like your plugin contraption. Great idea!

[Brian H]

If your old PLM (2412S) was also supplying the power to the ISY994i. The present 2413S PLM does not have power through the serial cable. So you will need an external power supply to the ISY994i. If don't presently use the one normally supplied in the ISY994i kit.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Brian H

[Teken]

I like your plugin contraption. Great idea!

Welcome back partner!


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[Teken]

Thanks for the great tips. I just ordered a new PLM. I had an old one that was not dual band. I'm also adding two range extenders. I think that with the new PLM, the range extenders across the power phases, plus the many dual band switches around the house the Insteon messages should get to the intended device.
My understanding is that dual band devices can and do communicate over the power line and over the "air", and that all devices pass along all messages. A dual band device that cannot communicate over the power line will work as long as it can communicate over the air. Correct?
It is weird that my setup worked fine until replacing old switches with new 2477s switches. One would think that the new switches would have better communication capabilities than the older versions.
- Bill

Hi Bill,

I always try to follow these basics if problems arise or present.

Coupling / Bridging: Confirm bridging of the split single phase electrical system as outlined in the full users manual via the 4 tab beacon test. You should do this for all rooms, floors, zones, areas.

Noise Makers / Signal Suckers: Unplug every possible electronic device you can reach. Anything you can’t reach simply turn off the breaker in a staged fashion. Keeping in mind this will impact the coupling / bridging you just confirmed above.

Repeaters: If you intend to purchase a repeater I suggest a plugin dimmer or better yet a plugin on-off relay module. As this unit allows you to turn the RF on-off. It also has one of the longest and consistent RF range of any Insteon product.

Going this route allows you to have a dual purpose device which can be used for lighting / appliances whereas with a stand alone AP it offers only one option which is coupling / bridging.

Adding: As noted early on make yourself a cheater cord to allow you to plug those switches on the same circuit as the PLM. Also try to add the switch using the add device vs automated option. Using the tap and link avoids errors in inputting the Insteon ID.

A quick test to validate if the hardware is fine is to tap link two new switches to one another in a small isolated circuit. If that works expand the test by tap linking to an existing piece of hardware. If it works you have just validated the hardware is fine.

If none of the new switches can be added to one another it’s possible a bad batch but not likely. I would lean toward noise / signal sucker and resolve.

Firmware / UI: Make sure you’re using the latest for the controller and both must match or you will see off behaviour.

Error Logs: Clear the logs. Set the error logging to level 3. Add a device and append the logs here or report back the errors seen by the controller.

Service Request: As always UDI stands ready to assist if none of the above helps. They may be able to help isolate and narrow down the root cause.

Let us know what happens!



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[cherokeesix]

Hello to all and thanks for the advice,

After the new PLM, extenders, and "factory resets" of just about all my devices my Insteon Network is back and fully operational. My house is large and long, with 3 electrical sub-panels. Communications were not working well. Now, with the new PLM and a number of new dual band devices, I have excellent communications across the board.

-Bill

[Brian H]

Glad you are now back in business.

[outsider]

I am having the same problem.

@Scottmichaelj can you please give more details on the end connectors of the test cord: Make and model? Ans possibly where one might be able to get some?

TIA

Edited October 14, 2020 by outsider

[Brian H]

I don't know if other manufacturers make a similar product. I am using the WAGO brand myself.

They look like WAGO three position Lever Nuts 222-413. https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/splicing-connector/p/222-413

You can also get 2 and 5 position 222 series Lever Nuts.

I got an assortment on EBay but I suspect they can be found in many places with a web search.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Brian H
Correct information

[MrBill]

Menard's carries Wago, if you're in one of the lucky mid-western states.

[outsider]

Thank you all, have been able to locate & order the connectors from Future Electronics

[Scottmichaelj]

I am having the same problem.
@Scottmichaelj can you please give more details on the end connectors of the test cord: Make and model? Ans possibly where one might be able to get some?
TIA

Sorry for the delay but I think you meant @teken since he had the fancy test setup. He was using WAGO connections.

[io_guy]

If you're buying the Wagos get the 221 series.  The picture is the older 222 series.

221s are smaller and clear.