Is it time to throw in the towel

[Mustang65]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I thought about that once too a long time ago in the houselinc days. Back then it was in its infancy. I liked things more for it's potential than what it was capable of. Even now, I see where things are and where they can go. 

I think switching from a system really depends on how invested you are in it. For example, smartphones! If you never use any of the features such as internet, maps, occasional text etc. it may be easier to go back to a dumb phone. However, if you use most of the features, trying to go backwards would be too painful. 

Even with my wife, when we moved her first words were I'll unpack, get the system up and running. I can't see her being happy at all. 

Some things we could live without such as voice control since it's not used that often. While everything can be used independent of automation, the amount of steps needed to accomplish a single task would increase dramatically. We've simply got to the point where it's become part of our life. 

I am not gone yet...

This morning I plugged Polisy back in and the only node-server  running is ecobee. So I decided to take another step and re added variables and the ecobee temperature sensors in the Fridge and Freezer. Redid the programs for text alerts if the temperature >45 degrees (F) in the Fridge and >8 degrees (F) in the Freezer. Removed the Fridge sensor and it sent me a text message and everything rest itself, when I put it back.

Added the high/low GEM AC voltages to I get an alert if they go to high/low.

We do not use voice commands with Alexa, only for background music and an occasional question that needs an answer.

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

I am not gone yet...

This morning I plugged Polisy back in and the only node-server  running is ecobee. So I decided to take another step and re added variables and the ecobee temperature sensors in the Fridge and Freezer. Redid the programs for text alerts if the temperature >45 degrees (F) in the Fridge and >8 degrees (F) in the Freezer. Removed the Fridge sensor and it sent me a text message and everything rest itself, when I put it back.

Added the high/low GEM AC voltages to I get an alert if they go to high/low.

We do not use voice commands with Alexa, only for background music and an occasional question that needs an answer.

You'll be able to do much more than you realize. For example, our bedroom thermostat turns on/off the ceiling fans while we are sleep at night. Depending on zone, if a door or window is open more than a few minutes, the thermostat for that area will automatically turn off/on. 

If you use the home and away modes, you can trigger those automatically instead of waiting for the thermostat to make is own adjustments. 

Depending on which sprinkler system you have, (I use rain machine which can work independent of the isy). However you can add it to the isy via it's nodeserver (now). While mine generally runs at night/before sunrise, if we unlock the door to let the dog out while the sprinklers are running, it'll automatically turn off and back on once we're done. 

There are other nodeservers such as Harmony. 1 thing my wife loves is the fact that the tv sleep timer automatically sets itself along with the lights. That way, if we fall asleep, everything turns off on their own

[Mustang65]

On 6/2/2020 at 4:31 PM, Mustang65 said:

I knew the day would come where I would throw in the towel on "So Called", Smart Technology. Everyone has so called smart technology, but no one wants them to talk to each other.

Today, I believe that I have arrived at that point. Over the last few weeks, with no intervention on my part, the MS II utility room sensor started working only about 75% of the time, followed by the Half-bath MS II sensor. Kick started it again, no change. Replaced the battery with a new one, no change. Brought the ISY and the PLM down and up again, no change. The MS II sensors give the motion green light when I walk in, but ISY shows no "ON". This leads me to believe that maybe {["ANOTHER"]} PLM may be going bad. Moved the MS II to within 10' of the PLM, no change. The half-bath MS II sensor, same.  This is the 3rd PLM. If that is the case, it is about time to make some serious changes. Some of the flood sensors occasionally get a mind of their own. 

...................................

 

On 6/2/2020 at 4:31 PM, Mustang65 said:

The system just will not quit pissing me off. This morning I got into ISY to add a program and 3 popups came up.

1. Cannot communicate with Front Door on/off sensor. Yet if I open/close the door I get a text message.

2. Cannot communicate with Half-Bath MSII sensor.

3. Cannot communicate with MediaCenter on/off module. I can manually operate it from the program.

The PLM is where it has been in its current location for a few years with no issues, but now wondering if the PLM is on its last leg.  Next will probably be all the flood sensors giving me popups.

 

 

 

 

[kohai]

My ISY994i z-wave seems to be having problems.  It's always been finicky but worked reliably enough but now I can't add any new devices.  The nodelink nodes for my DSC alarm are helpful.  I tie into Alexa for a lot of light controls (Centralite system I can control via http calls).  I control my hot water circulation pump, Christmas lights, one motion sensor, etc, etc.

Given the difficulty of trying to debug my isy z-wave issues, mysterious z-wave nodes, etc, I seriously am having the impulse to look at something other than UDI after years as a z-wave only user.  I've never had insteon.  I don't know that I want to try rebuilding my ISY from a blank factory state or just look at Home Assistant (or some other local-only z-wave controller).  I've upgraded this ISY through so many alphas/betas I can't know for certain everything is right with it.  Given that I've watched the 5.x firmware release cycle literally take years (I started on 4 and jumped to the first 5.x release as soon as multi-channel z-wave had support), I don't anticipate the ISY moving to polisys for a really really really long time.  As much as I like UDI and the way they run their business, I think that UDI's main business is not the ISY -- their business with the power company/government must be what pays their bills.

I tried to look into programming my own polyglot node and spent a couple hours on it.  I'm not much of a programmer these days but I use to hammer out perl code for work many moons ago.  Polyglot is cool but not straight forward enough for me to get it going with my poor python skills.  I want my lighting system to have two way communication.  Maybe I just wasn't motivated enough since I have one way communication with it (I can turn things on but can't tell the state of anything and I can't tell when something gets turned on from the switch).

I will say I ended up using the CAO wireless tags for monitoring a commercial building.  I was really surprised/pleased with how dead simple it was to deploy 10 water sensors and 5 temperature/humidity sensors.  I realized that was much easier than z-wave would have been.

Now that I can't seem to add new z-wave devices, I'm stuck with no easy next steps and am faced with only big hammer approaches.

[asbril]

4 minutes ago, kohai said:

My ISY994i z-wave seems to be having problems.  It's always been finicky but worked reliably enough but now I can't add any new devices.  The nodelink nodes for my DSC alarm are helpful.  I tie into Alexa for a lot of light controls (Centralite system I can control via http calls).  I control my hot water circulation pump, Christmas lights, one motion sensor, etc, etc.

Given the difficulty of trying to debug my isy z-wave issues, mysterious z-wave nodes, etc, I seriously am having the impulse to look at something other than UDI after years as a z-wave only user.  I've never had insteon.  I don't know that I want to try rebuilding my ISY from a blank factory state or just look at Home Assistant (or some other local-only z-wave controller).  I've upgraded this ISY through so many alphas/betas I can't know for certain everything is right with it.  Given that I've watched the 5.x firmware release cycle literally take years (I started on 4 and jumped to the first 5.x release as soon as multi-channel z-wave had support), I don't anticipate the ISY moving to polisys for a really really really long time.  As much as I like UDI and the way they run their business, I think that UDI's main business is not the ISY -- their business with the power company/government must be what pays their bills.

I tried to look into programming my own polyglot node and spent a couple hours on it.  I'm not much of a programmer these days but I use to hammer out perl code for work many moons ago.  Polyglot is cool but not straight forward enough for me to get it going with my poor python skills.  I want my lighting system to have two way communication.  Maybe I just wasn't motivated enough since I have one way communication with it (I can turn things on but can't tell the state of anything and I can't tell when something gets turned on from the switch).

I will say I ended up using the CAO wireless tags for monitoring a commercial building.  I was really surprised/pleased with how dead simple it was to deploy 10 water sensors and 5 temperature/humidity sensors.  I realized that was much easier than z-wave would have been.

Now that I can't seem to add new z-wave devices, I'm stuck with easy next steps and am faced with only big hammer approaches.

I think that it is important to understand why you are not able to add new Zwave devices. This happened to me  few months ago, but then UDI pointed out that I may have reached the maximum, and it cleared up when upgrading to Pro.

Ask UDI for support and help you determine what may cause your problems.

[kohai]

6 minutes ago, asbril said:

I think that it is important to understand why you are not able to add new Zwave devices. This happened to me  few months ago, but then UDI pointed out that I may have reached the maximum, and it cleared up when upgrading to Pro.

Ask UDI for support and help you determine what may cause your problems.

Doh.  I only have like 20 devices but I have a ton of phantom nodes.  Counting them, I do have about 250.  This is one of the oddities I've had with z-wave.  See example.

 

[asbril]

39 minutes ago, kohai said:

Doh.  I only have like 20 devices but I have a ton of phantom nodes.  Counting them, I do have about 250.  This is one of the oddities I've had with z-wave.  See example.

 

Yes, I have many of these. It's a bit annoying and I moved them to a separate folder. Some of these phantom nodes make no sense and I hope that one day these can be filtered out.

[kohai]

18 minutes ago, asbril said:

Yes, I have many of these. It's a bit annoying and I moved them to a separate folder. Some of these phantom nodes make no sense and I hope that one day these can be filtered out.

Bingo, upgrading the license to pro solved the problem of not being able to add new devices.

[simplextech]

3 hours ago, kohai said:

Doh.  I only have like 20 devices but I have a ton of phantom nodes.  Counting them, I do have about 250.  This is one of the oddities I've had with z-wave.  See example.

 

Those phantom nodes as they have been referred to are a ISY thing and do count against the ISY Node count totals.  Those phantom nodes are the capabilities of the z-wave device.  You should be able to use the group function to see how they group together and are then related.  There is an strange oddity with the ISY that I've not had with other z-wave controllers of device capabilities being created that the z-wave device does not actually have.  Such as a power switch suddenly having a color light or a thermostat having a water sensor.  Those things are odd....

Z-Wave controllers are limited to a max of 232 devices.  These are the root devices not the "capabilities" of said device.  So as an example a Aeotec MultiSensor is still 1 device even though it has 6 capabilities and battery notifications etc.  However the ISY will show a large number of "nodes" for this one device.  Those "nodes" count towards the ISY limits but not the Z-Wave controller physical limit.

[kohai]

10 hours ago, simplextech said:

Those phantom nodes as they have been referred to are a ISY thing and do count against the ISY Node count totals.  Those phantom nodes are the capabilities of the z-wave device.  You should be able to use the group function to see how they group together and are then related.  There is an strange oddity with the ISY that I've not had with other z-wave controllers of device capabilities being created that the z-wave device does not actually have.  Such as a power switch suddenly having a color light or a thermostat having a water sensor.  Those things are odd....

Z-Wave controllers are limited to a max of 232 devices.  These are the root devices not the "capabilities" of said device.  So as an example a Aeotec MultiSensor is still 1 device even though it has 6 capabilities and battery notifications etc.  However the ISY will show a large number of "nodes" for this one device.  Those "nodes" count towards the ISY limits but not the Z-Wave controller physical limit.

With these phantom nodes counting against the device count, I'm really limited to maybe 80-100 devices before I hit the 1000 ISY device limit.  I think polyglot nodes count against it too.  If so, it's super easy to hit that limit if a person ties in their alarm system and lighting system (and a sprinkler system, etc, etc).

[simplextech]

10 minutes ago, kohai said:

With these phantom nodes counting against the device count, I'm really limited to maybe 80-100 devices before I hit the 1000 ISY device limit.  I think polyglot nodes count against it too.  If so, it's super easy to hit that limit if a person ties in their alarm system and lighting system (and a sprinkler system, etc, etc).

Yes you're correct on all accounts.

[madcodger]

This is one of the most annoying things about the ISY and z-wave. I created a folder to hold all the phantom or unneeded/unwanted devices, and it is now easily my largest folder by a wide margin. Yet other functions, such as the humidity level on some of my temp sensors, doesn't show up easily when I'm using a mobile device, because there isn't a mobile user interface that handles them well.

I've concluded that you can either have rock-solid reliability (the ISY) or a decent mobile user interface (SmartThings, to some degree) or something with neither (Homeseer, in my experience). But nobody offers both. Sigh...

 

[simplextech]

2 hours ago, madcodger said:

I've concluded that you can either have rock-solid reliability (the ISY) or a decent mobile user interface (SmartThings, to some degree) or something with neither (Homeseer, in my experience). But nobody offers both. Sigh...

You "can" have both.  You just have to pay a whole lot more for it.  Whether that's paid for in money or in your time is up to you.

[gviliunas]

If you want to reclaim the phantom Z-Wave nodes, why don't you just select "Freeze ISY Nodes" under the Z-Wave options and then just delete any phantoms that have been added?

[asbril]

4 hours ago, gviliunas said:

If you want to reclaim the phantom Z-Wave nodes, why don't you just select "Freeze ISY Nodes" under the Z-Wave options and then just delete any phantoms that have been added?

For 2 reasons. When I put  "Freeze ISY Nodes" next time I start the AC, I will have to make that selection again...... a bit annoying.  Secondly I found out that when I delete a phantom node I may at the same time delete the non-phantom node(s) of the same device.

[gviliunas]

@asbril, Maybe I'm lucky. I just restarted both ISY and the AC and my Z-Wave option for Freeze Nodes is still "Yes." Also, I took the opportunity to delete ~30 phantoms this morning and per your experience, just checked. I didn't lose any of the requires nodes.

[asbril]

1 hour ago, gviliunas said:

@asbril, Maybe I'm lucky. I just restarted both ISY and the AC and my Z-Wave option for Freeze Nodes is still "Yes." Also, I took the opportunity to delete ~30 phantoms this morning and per your experience, just checked. I didn't lose any of the requires nodes.

Great, but be aware that they may come back.  Yes, sometimes the 'freeze'  option remains, but in my experience it gets unchecked sometimes... maybe when I reboot the ISY ?

[Craigb]

I'm not done.  If anything, my automation has become more integrated to my daily routine.  The system makes my home more comfortable to live in.

I started with X10 in 1983 when I needed reliable faking of occupancy from a single timer (apartment had unreliable power).  That slowly grew to more involved automation over the years.

In 2010, I started switching to Insteon with the ISY.  I was able to accomplish much more without dealing with the memory limitations of the X10 control module.  Basic functions are still timing and away mode settings, but with integrated thermostat/HVAC control, door locks, open/close sensors, smoke/CO alarm controls,  flood sensors and water valve, etc. I have a lot more logical automation and alerts - especially in away mode - now.

I'm rather unhappy with the Insteon modules.  They seem to fail at a much greater rate than the old X10 modules, some of which I used continuously for over 20 years.  The vast majority of the Insteon devices I purchased in 2010/2011 have died.  I did the rebuild of the PLM's with the new parts and haven't had a PLM failure since.  I've had one or two KPL's need a re-program of the link tables along the way, but it's easy to do from the Admin console of the ISY.

My biggest hassle has been the unreliability of some zwave devices, even with repeaters.  Battery operated zwave is especially finicky with the ISY. Overall, ISY software is rock-solid for my purposes, although the inability to have more complex programs makes the logic of nested programs a PITA to set up sometimes. I really like the appearance of the KPL's with custom button caps. 

Granted, I'm not doing polyglot, no voice integration, no node servers, or other fancy stuff, but I've come to depend on the automation, and my current setup is very reliable.  I make do with the UDAJAX interface on my phone's web browser.  I think the key is to only automate what needs automating for security and comfort, and not doing things for "cool" effect.

[jds31]

I had an MS II fail after using in a high humidity environment.  Took it apart and found corrosion on the circuit board.  Cleaned the board and it works fine.