Scenes vs Programs question

[kclenden]

10 hours ago, larryllix said:

He could just run the pump off of the latching relay contact

Sure, but then he wouldn't be able to use his ISY to track how many hours the pump runs and then wouldn't be able to estimate how much water he's using.  Without that data, his anxiety level would surely spike and his health might fail.  Best to keep using the IOLinc.  ?

[aviatordave]

Oh, don’t underestimate the psychosis of the rabid home automationer . . . If you all go back up to the pictures and look closely at the 4th pic, (the one that shows the insides of the box) you’ll notice that under the box where the garden hose connects to the outlet side (lower left) of the box is an Orbit gallon monitor. I know exactly how many gallons have been put through the system as well as how many gallons went through during the last individual cycle!

The DATA IS ALL MIIIINE!!!!!
MUUAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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[larryllix]

1 hour ago, aviatordave said:

Oh, don’t underestimate the psychosis of the rabid home automationer . . . If you all go back up to the pictures and look closely at the 4th pic, (the one that shows the insides of the box) you’ll notice that under the box where the garden hose connects to the outlet side (lower left) of the box is an Orbit gallon monitor. I know exactly how many gallons have been put through the system as well as how many gallons went through during the last individual cycle!

The DATA IS ALL MIIIINE!!!!!
MUUAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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Another Automation Anonymous candidate!

[aviatordave]

Is that where a bunch of us sit in a circle saying “My wife just doesn’t understand why I can’t leave well enough alone.”


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[keepersg]

On 7/29/2020 at 6:26 PM, aviatordave said:

Is that where a bunch of us sit in a circle saying “My wife just doesn’t understand why I can’t leave well enough alone.”


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My wife just shakes her head in amusement at my projects.  Inspired by aviatordave's project, I put this pond level controller together.  Used Insteon DIN relays with the sense wires going to a float valve to control a 24 volt DC power supply which powers the valve.  This is plumbed into above ground piping that runs under the tea house by the pond, hence the galvanized steel plumbing.  I added two LED lights, one to indicate that the system is powered (green) and a blue light to show that water is flowing to the pond.  My ISY  can control the system but mainly just monitors it.  I do have other controls through the ISY on the pond and stream system.  For example,  I have a cascading waterfall that only runs when motion is sensed.

[aviatordave]

Hey keepersg,

Great looking setup!! I like how much more clean and elegant your setup is with the din rail components! Well done!

Is completely autonomous from your ISY? (Or at least can it be? )

What do you use to start and stop flow?

-Dave


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[keepersg]

Hi Dave,

Because I'm using the sense wires on the DIN on/off device wired to a "Gems Sensors 160460 Nylon Float Small Size Type 7 External Mounting Single Point Level Switch, 11/16" Diameter, 1/2" NPT Male" the device doesn't need the ISY to function but can still be controlled and monitored from the ISY.  You can see the Gem Sensor in one of the pictures with some black tape around it.  The level switch is mechanically mounted so I can move it up and down to adjust the pond level at which it triggers.  I think the valve in the box is the same one you used.  The flow rate is controlled by a valve on the plumbing line that isn't shown in the pictures.  I appreciate the inspiration--I'd been checking the ponds for years and periodically filling them with a hose.

George

[aviatordave]

Hi George,

It gives me great pleasure to be inspirational for someone. My friends who don’t have the level of interest that I have in smart automation usually just smile and nod, hand out some compliments, and move on.

I looked at some of the horizontally mounted level float switches like yours when I was setting up my system but wound up using the ones I posted pictures of.

On the switch you use, can you tell me if the on/off trigger occurs at a single point or does the float have to travel to it’s limits to change the switch status? (I.e., Does the float have to travel all the way down to open (or close?) and then all the way up revert back to closed? (Or open?). I found with the switches I use, while the float has hard travel limits, the way the magnetic reed switch inside the tube works is that it opens and closes as soon as the magnet in the float influences it. The result is that the switch opens and closes at a specific point of travel with the magnet and not with the full range of travel of the float. (Which is about 1/4”)

The problem it made for me was that the system triggered the water on and off about every 10 minutes. Granted, the water level in the pond stayed EXACTLY at one height, but the frequency of cycling was going to wear out my solenoid valve fast. I had to go with a second float and I/O Linc to define the lower water limit so I could produce a physical water level range of about an inch. Now my system cycles about once every couple of days. To make this work I had to set up a simple program in the ISY. I would have preferred to not use a program but wasn’t willing to let the solenoid valve cycle so often.

How does your system work? Do you have a range of water level it waits before starting to fill and shut off?

-Dave


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[keepersg]

Regarding the switch, it's pretty much a single point although the float will travel a small distance before opening the circuit and then has to be in the fully closed position before closing the circuit.  There are other aspects of my system that prevent frequent cycling.  The pond has a motion activated waterfall. When that pump comes on the water level in the pond falls, the device activates and begins filling the pond.  The flow rate through the device is controlled by a valve and is deliberately set low.  Then when the waterfall turns off after 10 minutes of no motion (which is most of the time), water flows back into the pond and raises it's level above the level that would activate the device.  Thus the pond level stays above the activation point except when the waterfall is running or when there has been water loss from the system.  Mechanical hysteresis is built into the system.

My second pond doesn't have that waterfall feature so I'll have to solve the problem that your set up posed.  I'm going to experiment with an ISY program that would be activated when the Insteon DIN rail device turns on.  The program would keep the valve open for a set period after the float switch closes, filling the pond above the float switch level and establishing the same kind of mechanical hysteresis in the system.  Then the program would return the DIN rail device to its previous state.  I'll post the results after I have a chance to fiddle with that.

One other thing.  I don't have to worry about the ponds overflowing because there is an overflow reservoir with a pump that I can activate to send water back into the pond-stream system.   

George

Edited October 9, 2020 by keepersg

[aviatordave]

I like the overflow reservoir system. Sounds very handy.

We live in a heavily wooded area and my biggest problem for the pond is oak leaves and acorns. They get sucked into the pump box that sends water back up to the upper basin regardless of the system of screens, nets and brush filters that should keep them out. Not a big deal in the summer but fall brings on these headaches. We just put up the mesh tarps over the whole system to keep the leaves out of the pond. We’ll have to remove the tarps after all the leaves have fallen and hopefully before the snow flies. The tarps won’t support the snow loads. (Some years we’ve gotten a heavy snow before all the leaves have fallen. That’s always a big headache.) The problem that all the fall debris poses is that occasionally something works it’s way to the back corner of the pump box where I have the float switches and prevents the “system full” float from traveling up enough to send the off command to the water fill valve. Fortunately, I have the ISY set up to text me when the system starts to fill and when it’s full. I can tell, just from the frequency of texts, if the pump box needs cleaning. If, for some reason, I get distracted and don’t clean it soon enough, (and I’ve only experienced this once so far,) I can get a “Pond fill Started” message and then no “Pond Full” message. (Which should appear roughly 11-12 minutes later.) Then I know the system is stuck in the on position because some piece of a leaf, twig or acorn has jammed the upper float. I can also know this by looking out the window and seeing the stream of water flowing out of the pump box overflow port and downhill into the woods.

I’m trying to think of a way to isolate the valves from the debris in the water that gets past the filters. A simple piece of screen might do the trick but it’s a tight area. Another thought I had was having the float switches in their own enclosure that is plumbed into the pump box. That way they would share a common water level but the float switches would exist outside the debris collection/pump area. But even the port that allowed water to the float switch enclosure could become clogged.

The simplest solution is that I just clean out the pump box on a regular schedule. :-/

All in all, I’m immensely pleased with the system. It does have it’s vulnerabilities though. Hopefully you can benefit from some of my experiences. (Or even better, you won’t need to worry about them.)

-Dave


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