sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 I have 2 for my garage, 1 for my house water valve, and 3 for photobeam sensors. Yesterday every one of them stopped responding. I tried factory resetting one of them and doing a restore. Nothing. Finally removed one and, factory reset it, and then did a "new insteon" device. Still no luck. Did they all really fail at the same time??????? I've ordered two replacements for the garage doors but am going to use the CAI8 for digital I/O I need for the other applications.
sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Author Posted September 20, 2020 And before someone suggests powerline interference leaving wireless in tact, I still have quite a few powerline only insteon devices and they all still work.
larryllix Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) Easiest and most likely powerline interference test, is to unplug all garage door openers, and reinstall the KPL i/oLinc again. It's a very common problem with Chamberlain GDOs. Edited September 20, 2020 by larryllix
sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Author Posted September 20, 2020 KPL? The i/o lincs don't respond even with the PLM plugged directly into one of the i/o lincs. This has nothing to do with interference. These were spread through the house in different locations from one end to the other. All the other powreline only insteon devices are still working fine.
Brian H Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) The fact more than one has stopped working is odd. Though Murphy's Law does rear itself from time to time. The I/OLinc has the same small switching IC as the famous 2413 PLM. Depending on its hardware version. It could have a few different capacitor choices in it. As they tried to fix the supply dying thing. When you factory reset the one I/OLinc did its LED and buzzer act as it normally does with a factory reset? Power line only. I wounder if some type of power line surge hit them and did something to the modules power supply or power line interface circuit. Edited September 20, 2020 by Brian H
larryllix Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, sorka said: KPL? The i/o lincs don't respond even with the PLM plugged directly into one of the i/o lincs. This has nothing to do with interference. These were spread through the house in different locations from one end to the other. All the other powreline only insteon devices are still working fine. Possibly your PLM powerline output is dead. The co-incidence is too strange. The other powerline devices could be receiving signal via another Insteon dual-band device converting the RF, while the near units cannot see any powerline signal. Try moving a suspect i/oLinc to the same receptacle as a working powerline only device? Edited September 20, 2020 by larryllix 1
sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Author Posted September 20, 2020 But the other powerline only devices work fine. Even if the PLM powerline interface died, the fact that other devices work implies at the very least that dual band devices are relaying the wireless only signal from the PLM. Plus if the powerline interface died on the PLM, the reliability in general of the Insteon network would not be very good. So when factory resetting (holding button in for 3 seconds or more while plugging back in) results in the normal beep, then led turning on for a moment and then going out. But it never comes back on. According to the instructions, after it turns off after the beep, the status LED should come back on. It never does.
sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Author Posted September 20, 2020 My best guess is that there was some sort of electrical event that killed the i/o lincs and that they must be susceptible to some sort of device damaging event that the other devices were able to deal with.
Brian H Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 The one you factory reset. You already did a power cycle reset. On the off chance some of the others are just locked up from some power line garbage. You may want to do a power cycle reset on them. If you have not done so.
beninsteon Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) Use the opportunity to rid yourself of io lincs. They respond to the insteon "all on" command, and you're bound to come home one day with your garage doors open and water shut off. I've found the global cache gc-100 device a suitable replacement. Edited September 20, 2020 by beninsteon
sorka Posted September 20, 2020 Author Posted September 20, 2020 Already happens from time to time which is why I get notified whenever my garage door is open for more than 5 minutes when alarm armed in away.
larryllix Posted September 20, 2020 Posted September 20, 2020 The all on bug is a Insteon Scene type signal and does not send a status update.That is the big problem with the all on bug. ISY has not been able to detect the unwanted actions. Polling may help.Sent using Tapatalk
sorka Posted September 21, 2020 Author Posted September 21, 2020 About 3 or 4 times a month, all Insteon devices in my house come on. I have no ISY programs that send the ALL ON command yet it still happens.
beninsteon Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_Random_All_On_Events Is it all your insteon devices? Smart home disabled the all on command on newer devices/firmware, but for some reason never updated the io linc (a very strange decision considering the iolinc can be used for security purposes, controlling water valves, opening garage doors, turning on gas fireplaces, etc). I rarely have all on events now but when they do occur only my oldest insteon hardware is affected (and this hardware has been purposefully installed in areas where there is no risk of damage/security issues if inadvertently turned on/triggered). Edited September 21, 2020 by beninsteon
larryllix Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, sorka said: About 3 or 4 times a month, all Insteon devices in my house come on. I have no ISY programs that send the ALL ON command yet it still happens. The All On phenomenon is theorised as a clash in Insteon signals that appears as the All On signal to any Insteon device that cleans it up, repeats it, and causes Insteon devices to respond to it. It is thought to be created by RF devices clashing with powerline signals and confusing the protocol somehow. This can suaully be prevented by not echoing commands immediately in programs. eg: When an MS sends an On signal to a device, and a program resends the same command immediately after. One of the big gottchas is the KPLs which contain many devices in one Insteon address and physical box. Receiving a button On signal and turning on any LED in the same KPL is a likely problem. Inserting a Wait 1-2 second(s) is thought to help with Insteon protocol congestion. Using scenes and not programs where possible may help because no second signal is issued. This also may be exasperated by powerline noise as it can confuse signals and cause bits to be falsely enabled in the packets. See the wiki for more clues how to resolve this problem. 1
larryllix Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, sorka said: My best guess is that there was some sort of electrical event that killed the i/o lincs and that they must be susceptible to some sort of device damaging event that the other devices were able to deal with. What type of powerline bridging between the two phases do you have? It may be possible you blew out your phase bridging and now powerline only devices don't work on the far phase. This still sounds like a PLM problem where the dual band devices are carrying the rest of the powerline devices but only in certain locations electrically closer to the dual band devices. How old is your PLM? Is it time to have a spare one that you can test with? Edited September 21, 2020 by larryllix
epfunke Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 Did you have any nearby lightning strikes around the time of the failure? Last summer I lost an iolinc to a nearby strike. was home at the time of the strike and later that day noticed our driveway vehicle sensor was not sending updates to isy. (magnetometer probe type) so has about 150 ft of cable back to the house, aka a nice big antenna to pick up a surge,
sorka Posted September 21, 2020 Author Posted September 21, 2020 11 hours ago, larryllix said: What type of powerline bridging between the two phases do you have? It may be possible you blew out your phase bridging and now powerline only devices don't work on the far phase. This still sounds like a PLM problem where the dual band devices are carrying the rest of the powerline devices but only in certain locations electrically closer to the dual band devices. How old is your PLM? Is it time to have a spare one that you can test with? No bridging other than through wireless devices on opposite legs. I used to have wired in phase coupler on the 240 volt line going to my Jacuzzi (shortest average run) but once I bought the insteon access point and put them on separate legs, I removed the wired in one with no drop in reliability. Then once over half my insteon devices were dual band, I tossed the access points. Remember that I said the i/o lincs won't even respond when the PLM is pugged directly into an i/o linc.
larryllix Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, sorka said: No bridging other than through wireless devices on opposite legs. I used to have wired in phase coupler on the 240 volt line going to my Jacuzzi (shortest average run) but once I bought the insteon access point and put them on separate legs, I removed the wired in one with no drop in reliability. Then once over half my insteon devices were dual band, I tossed the access points. Remember that I said the i/o lincs won't even respond when the PLM is pugged directly into an i/o linc. Yes but some report most Insteon devices won;t function plugged into the same receptacle. It may over drive the receiver circuit. If the PLM powerline transmitter isn't working it wouldn't work either. Did you try plugging a bad i/oLinc into the same receptacle with a working dual band Insteon device? Have you tried the four tap test to determine if the Insteon signals are transversing your phases to the i/oLinc? Have you tried another Insteon transmitting device with the i/oLincs or just the PLM?
sorka Posted September 22, 2020 Author Posted September 22, 2020 I tried two of the i/o lincs plugged in all over the place. When trying to do a restore, there's a 100% failure rate on lincs getting written. Also the status light doesn't light back after a factory reset.
larryllix Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 29 minutes ago, sorka said: I tried two of the i/o lincs plugged in all over the place. When trying to do a restore, there's a 100% failure rate on lincs getting written. Also the status light doesn't light back after a factory reset. I think the LED shows it connected to the PLM. It still looks like could be a PLM problem to me.
Brian H Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, sorka said: I tried two of the i/o lincs plugged in all over the place. When trying to do a restore, there's a 100% failure rate on lincs getting written. Also the status light doesn't light back after a factory reset. No LED on the I/OLInc after factory reset. Power supply flaky and can't even restart correctly. If you are handy. I can see what the later revisions have in them for capacitors. Are yours early revisions? I have from original V1.0 to V2.3 I/OLincs. The capacitors between them is different. One possibility is there power supplies where getting weak and the power interruption. Pushed them over the edge. Edited September 22, 2020 by Brian H
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