Techman Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: They have not abandoned the PLM. The bridge only has an Ethernet port It looks like the Bridge either replaces the Insteon Hub or is private labeled for the Nokia product line
DAlter01 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 There is an older used 2413S PLM on ebay right now with the high bid at $142 with a day left so it should go higher, maybe a lot. If Smartlabs has not abondoned the serial PLM it seems they could be making a few dollars selling them. I know, chip shortage.....
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, Techman said: This appears to be the direction that Smartlabs is currently taking. See attached files and URL. The question is whether they'll continue to support the legacy Insteon product line Vantaa.pdf 171.59 kB · 2 downloads Vantaa Bridge.pdf 119.74 kB · 1 download https://www.nokia.com/shop/smart-lighting/nokia-smart-lighting-bridge/ https://www.cepro.com/control/lighting/nokia-teams-with-smartlabs-to-launch-nokia-smart-lighting/ They'll continue to support both though I do think it'll actually replace the insteon line once it matures in the future. I see the same thing happening with Polisy and the Isy. Why have 2 lines to support that does the same thing?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, DAlter01 said: There is an older used 2413S PLM on ebay right now with the high bid at $142 with a day left so it should go higher, maybe a lot. If Smartlabs has not abondoned the serial PLM it seems they could be making a few dollars selling them. I know, chip shortage..... If it sells, I have a few i need to put on there. ?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Techman said: It looks like the Bridge either replaces the Insteon Hub or is private labeled for the Nokia product line Currently it's for the Nokia line but articles says it will support popular insteon devices in the future. The insteon code is the same so it's a matter of them being added to the database. I think for now, they'll hold off on that to build this line up vs people going for standard insteon devices and using this hub Edited July 22, 2021 by lilyoyo1
DAlter01 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: If it sells, I have a few i need to put on there. ? Yeah, I have a new backup unit, its tempting to sell it for a few hundered. But, I might need it more than anyone else at some point in the future. I know you say they will have them again to sell but the word from Smarthome (last I heard) is they have discontinued it. I doubt that is accurate and just made by a low level customer service flunky, but it is a warning of what could, or may have, happend.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, DAlter01 said: Yeah, I have a new backup unit, its tempting to sell it for a few hundered. But, I might need it more than anyone else at some point in the future. I know you say they will have them again to sell but the word from Smarthome (last I heard) is they have discontinued it. I doubt that is accurate and just made by a low level customer service flunky, but it is a warning of what could, or may have, happend. I just looked at the eBay post you're talking about. I can't believe people are bidding that high.....it's tempting.
DAlter01 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said: I just looked at the eBay post you're talking about. I can't believe people are bidding that high.....it's tempting. Well don't flood the market, if you do it, release them slowly..... No nead to crash your market price.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, DAlter01 said: Well don't flood the market, if you do it, release them slowly..... No nead to crash your market price. I wouldn't do that. I don't have that many backups
DAlter01 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: I just looked at the eBay post you're talking about. I can't believe people are bidding that high.....it's tempting. I was a bidder on it up to $50 as a back-up to my back-up, I too was shocked at $142 and I bet it goes up another $25 bucks or more. I'd say there are at least two people that really need an PLM now. I know a guy in my area that is currently doing a big install. He had one in inventory so Ok on the PLM but once you are committed to the system, the price of the PLM becomes inconsequential even at $250. That same guy is desperate for a microdimmer, none on ebay at present. I've got a spare. Should I offer it to him for $1,000? (I wouldn't do that but if the old equipment starts going up a bunch, its fun to think of taking out my Insteon and using the proceeds to fullly pay for a new Lutron Homeworks system) Edited July 22, 2021 by DAlter01
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, DAlter01 said: I was a bidder on it up to $50 as a back-up to my back-up, I too was shocked at $142 and I bet it goes up another $25 bucks or more. I'd say there are at least two people that really need an PLM now. I know a guy in my area that is currently doing a big install. He had one in inventory so Ok on the PLM but once you are committed to the system, the price of the PLM becomes inconsequential even at $250. That same guy is desperate for a microdimmer, none on ebay at present. I've got a spare. Should I offer it to him for $1,000? Its worth a try to see what his counter offer would be
Teken Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 I am really happy to see this news finally come out into the public realm as I sat on the sidelines waiting! ? Regardless, these are my thoughts on this news in no specific order of relevance and importance. Partnership: As many of you have read from me is the never ending rant of connecting with a major hardware vendor. This on the surface has finally been achieved after the complete fail by Joe D. ? What material impact it will have over the long run won't be known for a while. As many partnerships and agreements have a WOO before a clause can be invoked to dissolve and part ways. Branding: Once again I and several others had already seen the Vantaa marketing name. The only thing unknown was if this was a new line considered by Smartlabs or Other. In this case it was other which was a partnership with one of most famous names in the world Nokia. Hardware: This hardware isn't new and has been known by all of via the FCC web page. The hardware was already under submition and under review since 2020.03.20. The other hardware was submitted a few months apart so this aspect was in the works long ago. If the various Internet web listings are true this hardware is a step back in some technical and electrical aspects. All of the web searches I've seen state this is a single voltage device. Keep in mind all of the current generation of Insteon is dual voltage & frequency! I've spoken about this at length forever as to how this impacts the world wide use and adoption along with the reliability factor of said devices! If and when this hardware is readily available I'm going to take a few of them apart. If I see the same cheap aszz capacitors and backwoods soldering on the PCB. This affirms nothing has changed besides a smooth talker selling so called new wares to a partner that has a mediocre track record for long term reliability. If on the other hand the board uses high quality components then maybe the page and direction has changed for Smartlabs . . . I have to say it's great to see this new Vantaa line take one of the Wish List items and make it come true! Seeing a four button KPL has been a long time want from many of us. But, this company has been too stupid to offer a frame kit to allow all of us to replicate the same! One thing I am eager to test and validate is (IF) these devices truly support any type of load. Also the fact it can toggle between a relay vs dimmer which requires some consideration in power supply expertise if to operate correctly. You only see this in more expansive switches so this will be interesting to see if marketing lives up to reality. The inclusion of a RGB LED is again another win and feature lots of people have asked for. Let the games begin . . .
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, Teken said: which requires some consideration in power supply expertise if to operate correctly. Sometimes it's on the consumer to actually take time to read...Judging by some of the posts on here, I know it's rare but that's on them not the company
Teken Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Sometimes it's on the consumer to actually take time to read...Judging by some of the posts on here, I know it's rare but that's on them not the company I didn't follow your reply what's on the consumer?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Teken said: I didn't follow your reply what's on the consumer? I thought you were talking about the customer needing expertise on their load type. I was saying that's on them to be aware
Teken Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: I thought you were talking about the customer needing expertise on their load type. I was saying that's on them to be aware Gotcha, my concern is the hardware not supporting dual voltage & frequency. If this was a typo all is good in the hood. But if its not that is a huge step back in terms of world wide adoption, sales, and market share! As it pertains to multi voltage this at the highest level assures voltage sag / voltage rise conditions will not impact and damage the electronics. Almost every new device uses this most basic wide voltage / frequency! Why??? Because you only have to swap out a plug to allow the same to be used anywhere in the world!
Brian H Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 The PLM PRO in the FCC Database has a universal power supply. For input voltage 100 to 240 and 50 or 60 cycles. Serial and USB versions. The AC input panel could easily be changed for other areas of the world. Along with the RF controller programmed for the area of the world it was made for. Now will we ever see this. Who knows. As things look to me. Keep being changed by Richmond Capital Partners.
upstatemike Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 I wonder what would happen if you took a screenshot of the FCC page for the PLM Pro and mailed it to SmartLabs and asked them for an estimated release date?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 22, 2021 Posted July 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, upstatemike said: I wonder what would happen if you took a screenshot of the FCC page for the PLM Pro and mailed it to SmartLabs and asked them for an estimated release date? Customer support either doesn't know about it or wouldn't say so even if they did.
LFMc Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) In reference to the Nokia "partnership", I think it foretells a couple of bigger picture issues/opportunities: 1. Nokia would not put the time, trouble or money into an alliance if "insteon is going out of business". They will have had a peak under the Smartlabs financial tent flap to validate their investment's financial security. 2. This partnership would not exist if Smartlabs was refusing to share it's technology. Maybe this is just the first door opening up a crack so that, if successful, Smartlabs may be open to other licensing opportunities going forward. 3. <edited/added item> Also being Nokia is a European company, wouldn't this also mean the adoption of European power standards as an option? If so, that would put that issue to rest also. <end edit> To me at least, this is all very good news for the continuance of Insteon. Given this, can someone please lock down this topic? ?? Edited July 23, 2021 by LFMc 1
lilyoyo1 Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, LFMc said: 3. <edited/added item> Also being Nokia is a European company, wouldn't this also mean the adoption of European power standards as an option? If so, that would put that issue to rest also. <end edit> To me at least, this is all very good news for the continuance of Insteon. Given this, can someone please lock down this topic? ?? The devices themselves operate on 50/60hz and up to 240v 1
Teken Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, LFMc said: In reference to the Nokia "partnership", I think it foretells a couple of bigger picture issues/opportunities: 1. Nokia would not put the time, trouble or money into an alliance if "insteon is going out of business". They will have had a peak under the Smartlabs financial tent flap to validate their investment's financial security. 2. This partnership would not exist if Smartlabs was refusing to share it's technology. Maybe this is just the first door opening up a crack so that, if successful, Smartlabs may be open to other licensing opportunities going forward. 3. <edited/added item> Also being Nokia is a European company, wouldn't this also mean the adoption of European power standards as an option? If so, that would put that issue to rest also. <end edit> To me at least, this is all very good news for the continuance of Insteon. Given this, can someone please lock down this topic? ?? No one really knows what the business details are for this relationship. Regardless, as I stated many times in the past and now I'll eat crow if things change. I have to give credit where credit is due to Rob as he was able to convince one of the oldest electronics companies in the world to adopt the Insteon protocol. ? My view is any forward movement as it pertains to the Insteon protocol is progress! At the end of the day this small victory may bring even more new hardware to market. The fact they have finally integrated the ability to update the firmware obviously means some was listening! As noted up top they even incorporated dual relay and dimming in one single housing. This is coupled by supporting multi voltage and frequency and RGB LED's that can be changed when made available. How so, of that whole thing about firmware updating!?! ? Then, it was finally releasing a 4 button KPL . . . Each of them are small victories for the consumer and existing Insteon user. All combined this may indicate turning the page *FINALLY* and releasing solid, reliable, and feature rich hardware. Since Canada isn't on the list for pre orders I'll have to wait to have one in hand and take one apart to see if the same old cheap sh^t is inside vs a higher caliber of components. Congratulations to Rob, Smartlabs, Nokia, and those who make it happen behind the scenes! ?
MrBill Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Teken said: I have to give credit where credit is due to Rob as he was able to convince one of the oldest electronics companies in the world to adopt the Insteon protocol. Guess it helps when he used to work there.... How much Nokia stock does Richmond Capital own?
Teken Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, MrBill said: Guess it helps when he used to work there.... How much Nokia stock does Richmond Capital own? I honestly don't care how it was done but had to call out publicly that this was a huge win and milestone for company. Everyone knows I have no problem throwing Smartlabs under the bus when needed. But, one has to acknowledge when something has finally happened in a positive way for the brand, protocol, and hardware.
MrBill Posted July 23, 2021 Posted July 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Teken said: I honestly don't care how it was done but had to call out publicly that this was a huge win and milestone for company. Everyone knows I have no problem throwing Smartlabs under the bus when needed. But, one has to acknowledge when something has finally happened in a positive way for the brand, protocol, and hardware. IMO How positive it is depends on compatibly between new and old and whether or not they toss all the old stuff under the bus.
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