wwat Posted November 26, 2020 Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) I just replaced my old dead Insteon garage door opening kit with a new one. I read through many of the previous posts on the topic including my own from 2010 but couldn't find an answer to this question. Should the ioLinc LED be on or off when the door is down? Currently the LED is on when the door is down and off when up. Thanks. Edited November 26, 2020 by wwat
oberkc Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 LED on = sensor on Having said this, there is no single right answer. It all depends on how you intend to use the sensor status in your system and how you want the system to behave. How was your old sensor used? As part of a scene? As part of a program trigger? Other?
wwat Posted November 27, 2020 Author Posted November 27, 2020 Its linked to a keypadlink button via two scenes as per the wiki set up. The KPL light is on when the door is up and off when down. I also want to set it up in Mobilinc HD, but not right now. For some reason I thought the old ioLinc light was off when the door was down but I could be wrong. Does it really matter?
Brian H Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) The magnetic sensor in the kit was changed awhile back. Did the old kit have a magnetic sensor. That had three connections? Normally Open,Normally Closed and a Common. With the old model sensor you could wire it On. With the magnet near the switch or away from the switch. It could also be possible. They changed the magnetic sensor. So it is now in the opposite state when the magnet is close to it. Edited November 27, 2020 by Brian H Add information
oberkc Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 7 hours ago, wwat said: Its linked to a keypadlink button via two scenes as per the wiki set up. The KPL light is on when the door is up and off when down. OK. Since the new sensor is ON when the door is closed, the KPL button will now be ON when the door is closed. Yes, I suspect that you had the original style sensor which had both options. The new one does not have both options. I believe you have a couple of options... - keep using the original sensor with the new IOLinc. (Assumes the sensor is still good.) - Purchase a new sensor having the "normally closed" option - mount the sensor in a location such that the magnet is close to the sensor when the door is fully open (less desirable in my estimation) - use a program (rather than a scene) to trigger the KPL backlight
wwat Posted November 27, 2020 Author Posted November 27, 2020 Thanks Brian and Oberkc, So yes I have the new sensor and the old one is finished. Do you mean here that the light on the KPL button should be ON or the state of the button? because the light is off when the door is down and on when the door is up. This seems to be as desired and the keypadlinc is working correctly as far as I can tell. 46 minutes ago, oberkc said: OK. Since the new sensor is ON when the door is closed, the KPL button will now be ON when the door is closed. I guess there are 2 main questions I have. 1) Since the relay is in the ON state when the door is down presumably being powered to keep the relay ON could it cause the relay to fail prematurely. I could be thinking about this all wrong but I would have thought that the ideal state for a garage door relay would be OFF when the door is down. Perhaps with the ioLinc is doesn’t matter. 2) The other little problem I have is with the MobiLinc app. I have it partially working I just can’t get the buttons on the MobiLinc dashboard to update correctly. The garage door works but I can’t get the app to update the buttons.
Brian H Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 You asking about the Magnetic Switch or the Output relay in the I/OLinc. The internal relay should be set to pulse on for a few seconds. To simulate you pushing the openers control button. The magnetic switch is designed to be On when the magnet is close to it. As it is a security systems sensor.
oberkc Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 1) The "SENSOR" is on when the door is closed. The relay is unaffected by the door position. Whether the sensor life is degraded by having the 5V applied a majority of the time (assume closed more than open) I do not know. 2) I don't think that the sensor being on or off will affect mobilinc operation. I performed a quick check on one device on mobilinc (mobilinc pro on UD portal, in my case) at my house, and it looks as if the mobilinc states updates less than 10 seconds after something changes at home. If your mobilinc is not doing this, I doubt it has anything to do with the IOLinc. My two IOLinc sensors appear to be tracking correctly on mobilinc.
wwat Posted November 28, 2020 Author Posted November 28, 2020 Sometimes pictures help. The garage door is in the down (closed) position when I took these screen shots and photo. The relay I'm referring to the ioLinc relay. Don't worry about the magnetic switch, it is what it is and I'm not changing it. I just want to make sure I have everything set up correctly. After that I'll attempt to diagnose the problem with Mobilinc. Thanks.
oberkc Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 It looks as if your scenes are set up correctly. I must admit that I don't understand why your sensor (indicated by green LED in third picture) is ON but the status as shown in the ISY admin panel pictures show OFF. Do you have sensor reversed in the IOLinc settings? Otherwise, I don't see anything else outside the normal. I assume you have relay mode set to momentary, and KPL button set to non-toggle mode?
wwat Posted November 28, 2020 Author Posted November 28, 2020 The KPL Button toggle mode is set to: Non-Toggle[ON] Here are the settings, yes it's set to trigger reverse.
oberkc Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 Thanks. The only problem with "trigger reverse" that I recall is that this setting does not apply when queried. So...if you have the typical 3:00am query, this might cause a state change for the sensor. Any program that might be triggered by a state change would run. Also, I assume it would render the KPL buttons being inaccurate until toggled again. Perhaps this has been fixed in newer versions of the IOLinc? Are you experiencing this problem?
wwat Posted November 28, 2020 Author Posted November 28, 2020 This morning I checked it and the kpl button was off and the door worked on first press. The 3am query didn’t seem to affect it. Will keep an eye on things over the next few weeks. On to the Mobilinc issue. Thanks.
slimypizza Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 If you're concerned about the Relay being energized for long periods (I was) then you could incorporate a short program to turn it off. Here's what works for me:
Brian H Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 If set to Momentary A as shown for 2 seconds. It should just pulse the relay for 2 seconds and then it would go off. I suspect it does not send a signal back to the ISY994i and it thinks it may still be On. You can look at the LED on the side. If it is dim the relay is Off or Bright it is On.
oberkc Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, Brian H said: I suspect it does not send a signal back to the ISY994i and it thinks it may still be On. This is true (at least older versions). The relay does not transmit status and cannot be used as a scene controller. Thanks for the update to your trigger reverse and query. Hopefully, that will remain solid for you.
wwat Posted November 28, 2020 Author Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Brian H said: If set to Momentary A as shown for 2 seconds. It should just pulse the relay for 2 seconds and then it would go off. I suspect it does not send a signal back to the ISY994i and it thinks it may still be On. You can look at the LED on the side. If it is dim the relay is Off or Bright it is On. 2 hours ago, oberkc said: This is true (at least older versions). The relay does not transmit status and cannot be used as a scene controller. Thanks for the update to your trigger reverse and query. Hopefully, that will remain solid for you. Brian H / oberkc, It appears that ISY is not updating the sensor status. The events below represent a KPL button press to open the garage door. When I query the sensor manually from the interface the status changes to OFF as per the ioLinc actual status. The same happens when the door is closed, status is not updated. Is that how you see it? Anyway I made a program to query the ioLinc and that appears to update ISY to the correct status for both the sensor and the relay. Now the relay shows OFF when the door is down and up which I think is correct, and the status in ISY is also correct. Query ioLinc - [ID 001F][Parent 000A] If Garage / Garage Door-Sensor is switched Off Or Garage / Garage Door-Sensor is switched On Then Set Garage / Garage Door-Sensor Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 33.03.0B 00.00.03 CF 11 00 LTONRR (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [Std-Group ] 33.03.0B-->Group=3, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3 B 3] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [ 33 3 B 3] DON 0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3 B 3] [ST] [255] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:25 : [ 33 3 B 3] ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 33.03.0B 11.01.03 CF 06 00 (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [Std-Group ] 33.03.0B-->11.01.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [INST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 33.03.0B 11.01.03 C7 06 00 (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [Std-Group ] 33.03.0B-->11.01.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:26 : [INST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 00.00.01 CF 11 00 LTONRR (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [Std-Group ] 53.43.AA-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [ 53 43 AA 1] DON 0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [ST] [255] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [ 53 43 AA 1] ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 00.00.01 CF 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [Std-Group ] 53.43.AA-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [ 53 43 AA 1] DOF 0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [ST] [0] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [ 53 43 AA 1] ST 0 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3 B 3] [ST] [0] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:27 : [ 33 3 B 3] ST 0 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 13.02.01 CF 06 01 (01) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [Std-Group ] 53.43.AA-->13.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [INST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 00.00.01 CF 11 00 LTONRR (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [Std-Group ] 53.43.AA-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [ 53 43 AA 1] DON 0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [ST] [255] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [ 53 43 AA 1] ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3 B 3] [ST] [255] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [ 33 3 B 3] ST 255 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 30.6A.B2 45 11 01 LTONRR (01) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [Std-Cleanup ] 53.43.AA-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:28 : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:29 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 11.02.01 CF 06 00 (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:29 : [Std-Group ] 53.43.AA-->11.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:47:29 : [INST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 53 43 AA 0F 19 01 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 53.43.AA 0F 19 01 06 LTSREQ (01) Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 30.6A.B2 2F 00 00 (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [Std-Direct Ack] 53.43.AA-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 1] [ST] [0] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [ 53 43 AA 1] ST 0 (uom=100 prec=0) Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 53 43 AA 0F 19 00 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 53.43.AA 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) --> Manual query through ISY interface Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:08 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 53.43.AA 30.6A.B2 2F 00 00 (00) Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:08 : [Std-Direct Ack] 53.43.AA-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:08 : [D2D EVENT ] Event [53 43 AA 2] [ST] [0] uom=100 prec=0 Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:08 : [ 53 43 AA 2] ST 0 (uom=100 prec=0) Edited November 28, 2020 by wwat
oberkc Posted November 29, 2020 Posted November 29, 2020 I have never learned to read those logs. My perception is that garage door openers can be a serious source of interference when they are running. Is that a possible explanation for what you are seeing?
wwat Posted November 30, 2020 Author Posted November 30, 2020 6 hours ago, oberkc said: I have never learned to read those logs. I'm in slightly unfamiliar territory with the event syntax too. I think the following line indicates that the ioLinc is reporting to ISY that the sensor is OFF. (the ISY interface reports that the sensor is ON) Sat 11/28/2020 13:48:07 : [ 53 43 AA 1] ST 0 (uom=100 prec=0) It would be really helpful if someone that was familiar with the syntax could confirm what's going on. @Michel Kohanim ? Anyone ? 6 hours ago, oberkc said: My perception is that garage door openers can be a serious source of interference when they are running. Is that a possible explanation for what you are seeing? I don't believe so in my case, the signal appears to be quite reliable throughout the house and garage. Many thanks, Wayne
wwat Posted November 30, 2020 Author Posted November 30, 2020 Michel emailed me, he is looking into this issue. I'll update the thread once resolved.
wwat Posted December 19, 2020 Author Posted December 19, 2020 An update on this issue from UDY support. The work around above works well so problem solved. It would be great if Insteon corrected the problem at some point in time. Per Chris Jahn: Quote An update on the IOLinc issues you are having ... 1) Status for the IOLinc Relay is never sent to us by the device. In some cases we can predict the value (i.e. when you change it using the Admin Console or from programs), but otherwise you have to query it. For example, if you have it set to one of the 'Momentary' option settings, it won't tell the ISY when it turns the relay off (an thus the ISY will show it as On until the device is queried). 2) The reason the IOLinc Sensor doesn't match the query is because we use what the device itself reports to us, and it reports the status incorrectly if you have 'Trigger Reverse' option set. The work around is to not use 'Trigger Reverse'.
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