AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 In trying to respond to a post by Mr. Bill, I managed to inadvertently delete the entire topic about the admin console that I started. Anyway, the post I was trying to respond to was a long one explaining how to manage KPL all on/all off scenes and was extremely helpful. Based on that helpful advice, I believe I have everything working properly except for one thing: how to get a KPL backlight to update in response to the status of switches controlled by a motion sensor. I think this may have something to do with the new(?) Insteon/Command/Default/Ignore options. Any insights on this?
MrBill Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, AndyHat said: how to get a KPL backlight to update in response to the status of switches controlled by a motion sensor. The only way to control the ON/OFF status of backlight behind a button is to put the button in a scene (controller or responder either one doesn't matter) and then control the scene. My guess is that's already they case, and the button is a controller. Therefor the program for the motion detector must be controlling the light directly and not the scene. If that's not the case. please right click the program name and select Copy to Clipboard, then in a forum reply hit the "<>" button on the editor toolbar and paste the clipboard (Ctrl-V) into the window that pops up. Edited July 30, 2021 by MrBill
AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Author Posted July 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, MrBill said: Therefor the program for the motion detector must be controlling the light directly and not the scene. Well, there you go. I was trying to accomplish this only in a scene with the switch, the button and the motion sensor. Let me try a program. I'm an attorney (I know, I know, ugh!), not a programmer. 1
MrBill Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AndyHat said: Well, there you go. I was trying to accomplish this only in a scene with the switch, the button and the motion sensor. Let me try a program. I'm an attorney (I know, I know, ugh!), not a programmer. That will work too, but the switch, the button, and the motion sensor, must all be in the same scene. Edited July 30, 2021 by MrBill
AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Author Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, MrBill said: That will work too, but the switch, the button, and the motion sensor, must all be in the same scene. They are. That's why I was thinking it might have something to do with that Insteon/Command/Default/Ignore feature.
MrBill Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 All three are insteon right? are all 3 set to insteon?
AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Author Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, MrBill said: All three are insteon right? are all 3 set to insteon? Yes, all three are Insteon. I'm pretty sure all three are set to Insteon, but that's my issue -- I'm not quite sure how that feature works and how to tell whether they are all set to Insteon.
AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Author Posted July 30, 2021 Oh, wait. I see that the ms and the button are both set to Insteon in the table above, but there does not appear to be a way to set the switch to Insteon.
MrBill Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 looking thru a scene I see that the node selected calls itself default. Click the root of the scene or the scene name, do all three table entries say insteon? Click each node of the scene, the node itself seems to say default but the other two should show Insteon.
AndyHat Posted July 30, 2021 Author Posted July 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, MrBill said: Click the root of the scene or the scene name, do all three table entries say insteon? No. The motion sensor says "default." What does that mean? I'll update the motions sensor (it's on a high ceiling) and see if I can get it to say Insteon. Thanks!
MrBill Posted July 30, 2021 Posted July 30, 2021 43 minutes ago, AndyHat said: What does that mean? I don't actually know, I don't understand default, and I don't have any motion sensors. Prior thread:
kclenden Posted July 31, 2021 Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, AndyHat said: The motion sensor says "default." What does that mean? Here is another post where the different kind of responder links are described: I haven an Insteon Only setup. There are only two times that I see a link type of "default". The first is when a controller is listed as a responder in its own table of responders. This makes sense since there is no actual link between the controller and itself. The action that the controller executes as a responder when it is physically activated is solely defined by its own hardware and not a link that the ISY can store in the device's Links Table. The other time I see a link type of "default" is when a one-way device (e.g. a motion sensor) appears as a responder in its own or another controller's responder table. By design, all scene controllers are also defined as responders in the scene. But a one-way device like a motion sensor really can't respond to other controllers. So it seems the the ISY defines its link type as "Default". What this means is that the ISY doesn't try to create an Insteon responder link in the device's Links Table and simply leaves it to the device to perform its default action. I'm not sure any of the explanations of link types has been completely accurate. For example, @Chris Jahn consistently says that default means "Takes the command the ISY receives from the controller and forwards it on to the responder device." But I don't believe this actually happens for Insteon commands. And when you think about it, it wouldn't make sense for the ISY to do that for Insteon devices since for the ISY to have seen the command the command must have appeared on the power line (or RF which eventually gets repeated on the power line) and in that case all other Insteon devices should also have seen the command. It only makes sense for the ISY to forward a command that is crossing protocols (e.g. Insteon to Zwave, or vice versa). So all of the out loud thinking above is my way of saying that for an Insteon only installation, whenever you see a link type of "Default" you can interpret it as the ISY not being involved in any way in the communication between the controller and responder. When you see "Insteon" as a link type, it means the ISY originally defined the links between the controller and responder, but after that it is not involved in the communication between the two devices (unless it is the controller). Edited July 31, 2021 by kclenden 2
AndyHat Posted August 1, 2021 Author Posted August 1, 2021 I'm still having trouble getting the keypad button to show the correct on/off status of the ceiling light switch when that switch is triggered by a motion sensor. I tried a program to turn on and off the button as a scene, but that did not work. I think if I could understand what option (Insteon/Command/Default/Ignore) to choose for the Insteon motion sensor in this scene, it would be very enlightening about a lot of things. "Insteon" is not an option, and there seems to be a lot of doubt about what "Default" is. So, here's my question: If the ceiling light is turned on by the motion sensor, (1) what should be the effect (generally -- and, specifically, on the keypad button) if I set the motion sensor to "Command" and (2) what should be the effect if I set the motion sensor to "Ignore"? I ran a search in the Cookbook for "Link Type," and found nothing. Thanks for any help. 1
MrBill Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 I think you need to move one line up and change the action for button.h to ON 1
AndyHat Posted August 1, 2021 Author Posted August 1, 2021 39 minutes ago, MrBill said: I think you need to move one line up and change the action for button.h to ON Well, thanks so much! That seems to work. I may have been overthinking this by worrying about how the button backlight would be turned off. As I was messing around with a program, it was very strange that I could turn the button scene on and off with the motion sensor via a program but not with the actual switch. Thanks again!
MrBill Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 (edited) On 8/1/2021 at 11:20 AM, AndyHat said: Well, thanks so much! That seems to work. I may have been overthinking this by worrying about how the button backlight would be turned off. As I was messing around with a program, it was very strange that I could turn the button scene on and off with the motion sensor via a program but not with the actual switch. Thanks again! Two points to help you better understand scenes. The settings are for the "on" version of the scene. sending an scene an "off" turns the scene off. And this trips everyone up at least once with v5.x scenes: The scene that your working with here has 4 controller nodes... The root level of the scene, and the motion and the two red controller nodes. ALL 4 NEED TO BE CONFIGURED. Each controller node can do something different for "on". So if you had a scene with 3 doorway's each with a switch, you could program different "on" commands for each door, additionally the root level is configuration is what happens when the ISY itself controls the scene with an "on" command. Edited August 3, 2021 by MrBill 2 1
AndyHat Posted August 3, 2021 Author Posted August 3, 2021 On 8/1/2021 at 2:57 PM, MrBill said: Each controller mode can do something different for "on". Did you mean to say "node"? I have a different issue with a different keypad I'm working on now that I better understand v5 scenes and keypad backlights: in this scene, the first two devices are in a separate three-way scene and the ceiling lights are not turning on when I hit the AllOn button. Before I started messing around with the button backlights, the actual switches worked as expected when the button was activated but the backlights didn't. Now the backlights work as expected but the switches don't. Why would that be?
MrBill Posted August 3, 2021 Posted August 3, 2021 3 hours ago, AndyHat said: Did you mean to say "node"? Yes. With that tight of screenshot I can't tell what controllers you have. but I think your issue is likely what we just discussed the root level, and all Red controller nodes. Also remember that for an ALL On or All Off scene where the switches also are in another scene, that you need to add all node... for Example if Location 1/Button A is the switch that controls the load, and Location 2 button C is the other end of the 3-way Button G on both is All On then you need to have button location 1 A and location 2 C both included in your all on. As far as what happens when all on is pressed you must set the Root level (which is what happens when the ISY sends a scene On, or by Extension also Alexa, Google home, or any remote software), THEN you must also click EACH red controller link and set what happens when an ON is sent from that location. When you make screenshots of scene's please include the tree at the left, so we can see what node you're looking at. 1
AndyHat Posted August 6, 2021 Author Posted August 6, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 1:22 PM, MrBill said: As far as what happens when all on is pressed you must set the Root level (which is what happens when the ISY sends a scene On, or by Extension also Alexa, Google home, or any remote software), THEN you must also click EACH red controller link and set what happens when an ON is sent from that location. The three-way issue resolved itself. I did nothing except leave it alone for a day. However, I have another keypad backlight issue that I'm working on that includes a Z-Wave motion sensor to trigger an Insteon switch only at a certain time (night). I'll use all of your recommendations to make sure it is perfect. Just FYI, I'm obsessing about the backlight issue since I'm going to be marketing my house, along with the HA and A/V (largely cable, not wireless) systems and I'm not interested in showing the house to people who can't understand and appreciate the versatility. Thanks!
MrBill Posted August 6, 2021 Posted August 6, 2021 1 hour ago, AndyHat said: The three-way issue resolved itself. I did nothing except leave it alone for a day. However, I have another keypad backlight issue that I'm working on that includes a Z-Wave motion sensor to trigger an Insteon switch only at a certain time (night). I'll use all of your recommendations to make sure it is perfect. Just FYI, I'm obsessing about the backlight issue since I'm going to be marketing my house, along with the HA and A/V (largely cable, not wireless) systems and I'm not interested in showing the house to people who can't understand and appreciate the versatility. Thanks! I'll have to pass on this one, I have no Z-wave and don't know how it works in scenes. If know else responds I do know who to nudge.... 1
Recommended Posts