Arc-fault interrupter blocking communication?

[slcasner]

Has anyone had problems with the ISY being unable to communicate with Insteon devices when the PLM is plugged into a circuit protected by a circuit breaker with arc-fault interrupter function?  This is a Square-D HOM115CAFI breaker.

My branch circuits have all just been moved to a new subpanel as part of a solar PV system installation with whole-house backup.  Initially all the breakers were ordinary, including those that were GFCI breakers in the old main panel.  The Insteon devices were working, but then a CAFI breaker was installed on the circuit where the PLM is plugged in, and then the ISY failed communication with most of the Insteon devices.  I used an extension cord to plug the PLM into a different circuit and then communication was restored.  But all the outlets in the room where the ISY needs to be to access Ethernet are on the circuit that also has outlets outside and in a guest bath, so it needs GFCI protection.

(Nevermind the fact that a CAFI breaker does not provide GFCI protection and the electrician says "that's what we use and it passes inspection".  I've ordered a HOM115PDF breaker that includes both combination arc-fault and ground-fault functions to see if that works.  The only HOM115PGFI without the arc-fault function that I could find was $260.)

[Teken]

Has anyone had problems with the ISY being unable to communicate with Insteon devices when the PLM is plugged into a circuit protected by a circuit breaker with arc-fault interrupter function?  This is a Square-D HOM115CAFI breaker.
My branch circuits have all just been moved to a new subpanel as part of a solar PV system installation with whole-house backup.  Initially all the breakers were ordinary, including those that were GFCI breakers in the old main panel.  The Insteon devices were working, but then a CAFI breaker was installed on the circuit where the PLM is plugged in, and then the ISY failed communication with most of the Insteon devices.  I used an extension cord to plug the PLM into a different circuit and then communication was restored.  But all the outlets in the room where the ISY needs to be to access Ethernet are on the circuit that also has outlets outside and in a guest bath, so it needs GFCI protection.
(Nevermind the fact that a CAFI breaker does not provide GFCI protection and the electrician says "that's what we use and it passes inspection".  I've ordered a HOM115PDF breaker that includes both combination arc-fault and ground-fault functions to see if that works.  The only HOM115PGFI without the arc-fault function that I could find was $260.)

The way you describe it your problem is a lack of bridging due to being on the new sub panel.

Complete the 4 tap beacon test to confirm.

[MrBill]

@slcasner

I seriously doubt that arc fault and/or GFCI breakers are your problem.  If it was, this forum would be full of like posts, its not.

Some links from the wiki to help:

Troubleshooting INSTEON Communication Errors

INSTEON Signal / Noise Troubleshooting

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_No_Status_Feedback_From_Devices

[slcasner]

Thanks for the replies.  I expect that I do need to add a bridge between the A and B legs, but the reason I suspect the arc-fault breakers is that the system was working with only occasional communication problems that would probably be reduced by a bridge, then when the arc-fault breaker was installed on the circuit with the PLM, ISY lost communication with practically all the devices that depend on powerline communication.  Moving to a different circuit without the arc-fault breaker restored the communication.

I agree that if all arc-fault devices cause problems we should see reports in this forum.  Perhaps the one I have is defective in some way.  I'm hoping that the dual-function breakers I ordered don't exhibit this problem.

[slcasner]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:28 AM, MrBill said:

@slcasner

I seriously doubt that arc fault and/or GFCI breakers are your problem.  If it was, this forum would be full of like posts, its not.

Some links from the wiki to help:

Troubleshooting INSTEON Communication Errors

Interestingly, that first reference includes this statement: "Likewise, certain models of GFCI outlets have also been reported to degrade INSTEON signals (this, however, is not true for all GFCIs)."  So I guess my hypothesis was plausible.

[larryllix]

Dual band devices strategically placed on the GFCI circuit close to dual band units on another non-GFCI circuit can usually alleviate that problem.

We have heard this before with these breakers and AFAIK it is brand dependent also.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[slcasner]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:04 AM, Teken said:

The way you describe it your problem is a lack of bridging due to being on the new sub panel.

Complete the 4 tap beacon test to confirm.

@teken, I've done some searching for "four tap test" and "beacon test" in this forum and in the wiki but I did not find a reference for that test.  Can you provide one?

[Teken]

@teken, I've done some searching for "four tap test" and "beacon test" in this forum and in the wiki but I did not find a reference for that test.  Can you provide one?

You’ll want to reference the full users manual for the specific model and year of hardware you have on hand. As each hardware (model year) there were slight variations in what the expected LED / colour would be when the phase bridging (beacon / 4 tap) test was initiated.

Regardless, here are the steps for the 2413S PLM:

https://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2413Sqs.pdf

[Brian H]

A few of the Dual Band modules.

You had to follow a flow chart. In the manual. Using LED color and flashing patterns to get officially into the Beacon Tests. I did find a few modules that also worked fine with the good old four tap method.