There’s a thread here  that sorta branched off to a hub as plm discussion …  

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/36258-just-picked-up-another-polisy/

I figured rather than hijack further it may be more considerate to start a new one - so here goes: 

i ordered a RS232 To TTL Converter as @apostolakisl suggested might work and proceeded to open up a spare 2245 hub… I’ve been searching for some schematic or detailed photos to identify the Tx & Rx (3.3v and ground were easily identified) and I’m just not clear on where they are.    However I may have stumbled on to something else. After looking at diagrams and internal pics for the 2413 (PLM) FCC ID SBP2413U or FCC ID SBP2413S and the 2443 (Access Point) FCC ID SBP2443A they look virtually identical (less the serial or USB daughter card on the 2413).

has anyone attempted a conversion on one of these? 

Edited May 15, 20223 yr by kenrok1
clarification

Can't find anything on a 2143.  The 2443 is the HUB with Home Kit Enabled features. Smartlabs called it a HUB PRO.

I can't say about a HUB since both my 2242-222 older HUB and 2245-222 newer HUB, are sitting unused in a storage box.

I have seen a photo of the older HUB where the separate Ethernet board was removed and a serial board connected to the main board. The 2245-222 and probably the 2243-222 newer HUB have everything on one board,

My FCC photos show many rows of possible connections in the 2245-222 HUB. You may find more voltage  and signals available.

Do you have a part number on the converters chip? That would give a clue to what voltage it needed.

I did see a note on the Ebay page on a used chip. I will see if I can find more details on that chip and hopefully have better information. Said as low as 3.3 Volts.

 

Edited May 15, 20223 yr by Brian H
Add information

Here's a old reddit post on 2443 teardown that's been getting linked frequently the past month:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeKit/comments/912rjm/insteon_hubpro_teardown/

 

sorry I just updated to clarify - i was referring to the 2443 "access point" not the hub pro.

FWIW the access points can be found ~$20 ish on ebay right now so I bought one to experiment with

4 hours ago, Brian H said:

Can't find anything on a 2143

sorry typo on my part - I meant the ubiquitous 2413

7 hours ago, kenrok1 said:

sorry I just updated to clarify - i was referring to the 2443 "access point" not the hub pro.

FWIW the access points can be found ~$20 ish on ebay right now so I bought one to experiment with

Just to be clear, an "access point" is a different thing.  The 2413s/u is a PLM (power line modem).  All an access point does is convert radio to power line and vice versa.

Yes that is true. I am well aware of what it does. I have a box full of unused ones in storage.

But any version 2 Access Point is on a 2413 main board and suffers from the same power supply issues as our 2413S.

I kind of doubt  it uses a PLM signaling protocol between the main control chip and the RF control chip. It uses TTL logic signals (0V and +5V) and has a 5 volt logic power supply not a 3.3 volt one you have found. Though their still be a +5 volt logic supply you have not seen yet. The Link Memory in the PLM is on the serial or USB daughter board. If their is no daughter board their is no Link memory. The HUB should have its link memory on the main board.

If the TTL to RS232 board you are using in your link. The part number shows it can use 3.3 Volts as a supply. TTL to me is  0 or +5 Volt signal swing.

Got any schematics links you mentioned. It could be clearer to me with that information.

Edited May 15, 20223 yr by Brian H

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

any version 2 Access Point is on a 2413 main board

This is what I was trying to confirm- so it stands to reason the 2443 could be repurposed to function as a 2413.  Disregarding the rs232 board for the moment I’m going to see if a donor daughter board from a 2414u might work

No a 2414U USB daughter board will not work. The USB interface chip is hard coded the the 2414U speed of 4800 baud rate. The PLM is 19,200 baud rate. I did put a 2414U daughter board in a PLM main unit and had to change my test speed from 19,200 baud to 4800 baud to even access it. The 2414U daughter board does have some link database memory on it but it will be at a incorrect baud rate needed to talk to a ISY controller.

You also do not have any Link Data base memory on the main 2413X board. It is on the serial or USB daughter board and required for proper PLM operation. The Administrative Console has a few tests to read and compare the data in that memory and it is used for properly addressing the units being controller.

All the signals you should need are on the 8 pin male headed on the lower edge of the 2413X main board. +12 volts unregulated changed to +5 volts on the daughter boards regulator, common for all the signals and voltages, 5 volt level send signal, 5 volt level received data signal, SD for the date used by the on board database memory and SC clock signal for the on board database. The PLM uses 5 volt logic signals. Can't say about the HUB as I have not looked yet. But I expect to see some 5 volt regulator on it. Though some recent electronics have gone to 3.3 volt logic.

I do admire your trying to fix this terrible problem. Please keep us informed on anything you find out.

I sure wish the member used a HUB and RS232 interface had provided more data on connection points and board used. To see if it had other features besides the basic RS232 to TTL function.

Edited May 16, 20223 yr by Brian H
Add stuff.

@Brian H thanks - looks like you answered that! any idea if there are other potential donor daughter boards (besides from a 2413 itself?) 

The reference to 3.3v came from the 2245 conversion - as well as the pinout circled here 

I have an early revision 1.0  2445 and gave it a look. You are correct it uses 3.3 volt logic. I found the three controller chip programming connectors. All three of them have the +3.3 Volt and ground pads on them. Not the +5 volts and ground I have seen in the PLM. It also has the same switching power supply as the 2413S/U PLM. So I suspect at sometime they will need replacement.

I did a test with a serial port board from a 2413S V1.0, installed in a V2.5 Access Point.
It did not act like a PLM. It just did the proper functions as an Access Point.
It did not even connect with my PLM test programs.
I think you are confusing the physical hardware looks with the modules normal functions.
As far as I can tell a V2 Access Point hardware has no PLM functions built into it and different firmware than a 2413S PLM.

 

Edited May 17, 20223 yr by Brian H
Correct and add information

I looked up a few of the chips in the 2445 V1.0

Many are designed for 3.3 volts so it looks like it is volt logic.  Some have a few I/O signals that are 5 volt tolerant.