Polisy doesn't boot if connected to powered Insteon PLM

[FBoucher]

On the white label I have:

2413S
V1.B
1252

 

[Brian H]

Thanks for the added information. V1.2B, firmware 9B is not a later 2413S. Date codes keep changing so 1252  may not be what I think is week 52 0f 2012.

Since it is a new setup. You could try a 02 67 software reset and then see if 02 73 gives a different answer.

[FBoucher]

Thanks Brian, I don't want to factory reset the PLM. I have 25 devices configured and linked. I don't want to loose that work. I don't mind having "linking with the Local Set Button on the PLM" disabled, unless you foresee problems. I can always send an IM configuration change manually.

Edited July 25, 2022 by FBoucher

[Brian H]

OK. I thought it was a blank database.

Not using the wiping it clean command in this case. Sounds like a good way to go.

If you have not yet. Trying a UDI contact ticket. May get you a more definite answer. https://www.universal-devices.com/contact-us/

https://www.universal-devices.com/polisy/

Going to sound like a broken record here. The unused wires on the network side of the adapter are not touching anything or are cut off? I did not see any valid Insteon messages in the long string you posted. The two 02 entries did not have a valid message entry after the 02.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Brian H
Add information

[FBoucher]

In my setup, the RJ45 to DB9 adapter only has the three pins connected. While all 8 pins from the PLM are carried by the ethernet cable up to the RJ45 to DB9 adapter, the Polisy only see three pins.

[Brian H]

Sounds OK. Was just double checking that none of the other signals where connected to anything. As two of them are the unused TTL In and Out signals.

[apostolakisl]

You can factory reset the PLM and you won't lose anything.  ISY has a "restore plm" command which will write all the links to a blank plm.  

I do believe your plm is quite old.  Has it been recapped?  PLM's from that vintage are like clocks.  At exactly 2 years of being powered on, they die.  The issue is bad capacitors which most people diy repair.

[Brian H]

You are correct.

A version V1.B  PLM with 9B firmware is an older PLM.

I forgot about the Restore PLM function. From what I have see it starts by sending the factory reset software command then reloads the link database.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Brian H

[FBoucher]

Hello Brian, as it turned out, the problem was that I had an old version of the Polisy BIOS. Apparently, that version was using com1 as default kernel output. Now that I have updated the Polisy BIOS, all is back to normal.

I got my PLM from Aartech.ca, a genuine distributor of both UDI and Insteon products. However, this PLM was part of their surplus sold as is. They told me it had been recertified, whatever that means. Hopefully, the bad capacitors were replaced. Otherwise, I'll do it myself since there are not too many units available for purchase.

Thanks for all your help.

[Brian H]

Glad you are working fine now.

Thank you for the updated information on the PLM and Polisy status. There are plenty of PLM fixed threads here and vendors that have complete good brand capacitor kits.

[apostolakisl]

15 hours ago, FBoucher said:

Hello Brian, as it turned out, the problem was that I had an old version of the Polisy BIOS. Apparently, that version was using com1 as default kernel output. Now that I have updated the Polisy BIOS, all is back to normal.

I got my PLM from Aartech.ca, a genuine distributor of both UDI and Insteon products. However, this PLM was part of their surplus sold as is. They told me it had been recertified, whatever that means. Hopefully, the bad capacitors were replaced. Otherwise, I'll do it myself since there are not too many units available for purchase.

Thanks for all your help.

"Recertified" is unlikely to mean that anything was done but testing.  The PLM's are easily opened and inspected.  There is a good chance you will be able to tell if it was recapped, even if the soldering was done by a pro as there will be subtle differences.  Also, some of the recommended replacement caps don't fit in the orientation originally designed.  If I were you, I would go ahead and buy a new set of caps for it now.  You might decide to just let well enough alone until it fails, but seeing as failures like this always happen at the most inconvenient time, you might just recap it now.

[FBoucher]

Thanks for the tip Brian. Will do just that. Any vendor in particular?

[Brian H]

There are a few on Ebay. One was in Canada and I believe your setup was from a Canadian vendor. I don't have the exact web page link anymore. A search did show a few US vendors but I have a suspicion one was using a US shipper and was located in Canada. One vendor actually broke the included good caps in the version numbers so you got an exact match to what is in your revision.

There where many different capacitors used by Smartlabs in hoping to correct the issue. As pointed out. Later revisions have a C7 and C13 100uF/50V cap that was too large physically to fit the solder pad holes and was parallel to the PCB and leads bent to fit. V2.3 they went to a 100uF/50V. Fujicon TY capacitor. The TY series is designed for high ripple and high frequency switching supplies that the 2413 PLM, V2.? 2443A Access Points, 2450 I/OLink used.

C7 and C13 are the two directly in the unregulated 12VDC output of the switching supply. Normally around 18V to 19V DC and the ones they kept trying different things.

Very long thread but I believe there are the latest information in the last few pages but the whole thing is a good set of information. https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Brian H
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[Brian H]

With the parts shortages these day. You may have to find equivalents if you choose the use an electronic parts distributor and not an assembled capacitor parts kit.

I used Mouser and I have seen Digi-Key mentioned.

Tip from experience. The PCB is double sided with plated through holes mounting the capacitors. I tore one out in a rebuild and had to add a wire jumper to complete the circuit again.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Brian H
add stuff

[apostolakisl]

18 hours ago, Brian H said:

With the parts shortages these day. You may have to find equivalents if you choose the use an electronic parts distributor and not an assembled capacitor parts kit.

I used Mouser and I have seen Digi-Key mentioned.

Tip from experience. The PCB is double sided with plated through holes mounting the capacitors. I tore one out in a rebuild and had to add a wire jumper to complete the circuit again.

My personal experience is that an air compressor makes it very easy to remove components without damaging anything.  I tape off the board with painters tape, then melt the solder with my iron and hit it with a pop from my air compressor and the solder goes flying leaving a perfectly clean hole with the wire lead loosely sitting in the hole.  Super fast and easy.  Just be aware of where the solder is flying so you don't short out something elsewhere on the board.  Angle the air compressor gun such that your solder flies off onto the tape.  If you do get some over spray on the board, it easily is removed with a fingernail or wooden q-tip handle.  The solder spray will not bond when it lands, but certainly could create a short. though I have never had a short happen.  I have replaced quite a number of capacitors on Insteon devices over the years and can repair an entire unit it just a couple minutes start to finish.  Also, leave the wire leads long on the new ones until after soldered in.  Once soldered in, I just bend it around a few times and it snaps off right at the edge of the solder.

[MrBill]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

My personal experience is that an air compressor makes it very easy to remove components without damaging anything.  I tape off the board with painters tape, then melt the solder with my iron and hit it with a pop from my air compressor and the solder goes flying leaving a perfectly clean hole with the wire lead loosely sitting in the hole.  Super fast and easy.  Just be aware of where the solder is flying so you don't short out something elsewhere on the board.  Angle the air compressor gun such that your solder flies off onto the tape.  If you do get some over spray on the board, it easily is removed with a fingernail or wooden q-tip handle.  The solder spray will not bond when it lands, but certainly could create a short. though I have never had a short happen.  I have replaced quite a number of capacitors on Insteon devices over the years and can repair an entire unit it just a couple minutes start to finish.  Also, leave the wire leads long on the new ones until after soldered in.  Once soldered in, I just bend it around a few times and it snaps off right at the edge of the solder.

this is a cool tool that i use, its similar in principle but it sucks the solder up instead of blowing all over the place randomly

https://www.amazon.com/WEmake-WM-SP4-Solder-Sucker-desoldering/dp/B0002KRAAG/

[sjenkins]

On 7/28/2022 at 1:48 PM, MrBill said:

this is a cool tool that i use, its similar in principle but it sucks the solder up instead of blowing all over the place randomly

https://www.amazon.com/WEmake-WM-SP4-Solder-Sucker-desoldering/dp/B0002KRAAG/

I use that same ; works like a dream & only six bucks!