ISY not detecting local control of 2477D and Keypad switches

[fmk2]

I am having an issue that is very similar to the one in this thread:

The difference is that I am still on my ISY-994i, not IoP.  But the ISY is not detecting any paddle clicks on any of my 2477D switches or Keypads.  The ISY detects state changes for these devices when a program runs, but if you manually hit the On or Off paddle on a switch, the state change doesn't register on the ISY.

I've tried right-clicking on a switch and selecting "Restore Device", but that has no effect.

Any suggestions for how to fix this problem?

Thanks.

 

[Techman]

@fmk2

What firmware version is your ISY and UI 

[fmk2]

Ah, good point... I should have included that info.

The ISY and the UI are both on version 5.3.4.

And for what it's worth, the ISY is model ISY-994i/IR PRO.

 

[Techman]

If you turn the switches on/off from the admin console do they respond and does their status update?

You might try rebooting the ISY.

 

[fmk2]

Yes, turning switches on and off from the Admin console works, and the status updates in the UI.

And no, rebooting doesn't help.

 

[Techman]

2 hours ago, fmk2 said:

Yes, turning switches on and off from the Admin console works, and the status updates in the UI.

And no, rebooting doesn't help.

 

Open up your event viewer, set it to level 3 and then turn on and off one of the switches. Post a screenshot of the viewer results.

[fmk2]

OK, here's a screenshot of the log for a couple switches being turned on and then off, one after the other.

I never have a need to look at these logs, so don't really know what I'm looking at.  Hopefully there's something useful there.

 

[Techman]

The ISY is seeing the switch activity, but why the admin console isn't displaying the status is strange.

Try clearing your Java cache including all applications then reload the admin console. Let me know if that clears up the display issue.

[fmk2]

That was a good suggestion, but I'm afraid it didn't work.  I cleared everything in Java, including applications, and then reinstalled the start applet, but the console still doesn't register state changes for the switches.

And just to make sure it isn't a problem of some sort on my PC, I performed the same steps on another computer.  No luck there either.

 

[Techman]

I'm running out of suggestions.

Try doing a factory reset on one of the devices then a restore device. The only possibility I can think of is that the link tables are missing some links.

[vandy]

Hi, I am having the same type of problem with a 2477D switch that is install in a scene along with a 2334-222 KeypadLinc 8 Button and a2342-232 Mini Remote bottom. I am turning the 2477D on to 40% at the switch, 40% from the Mini Remote and 60% from the 2334-222 and all report the correct value when on. If I go the 2477D and increase it to any value it still reports the previous value. I just moved over to the eisy controller with firmware and UI both on v.5.5.2 from a 994I but I don’t think that is the problem. I would not have found this if I hadn’t tried to trigger a program off of the status of the 2477D switch. If I turn on the 2477D from the KeypadLinc the 2477D reports a 60% value as it should, then if I press the 2477D top pad to increase the value it goes down to 40% and reports that value, and it has always done this in the past. Now when I press the top of the 2477D the second time the light goes to 100% but the eisy scene and the 2477D switch both report 40% as does my iPhones UD Mobile app. I also have a 6.5 ramp set on all the devices and when I increased the light to 100% using the 2477D and it reports 40% when I turn it off my UD Mobile and the isy app report values greater than 40% as it ramps down. If I increase the light level using the Mini Remote the values are reported correctly. Any ideas on fixing this, I will accept any and all help. I have attached 4 file with the event log from turning on the 2477D to turning off the 2477D

Tap 2477D bottom pad to turn off.txt Tap 2477D top second time goes to 100%.txt Tap top pad on 2477D level goes to 40%.txt Turn 2477D on from KeyPadLink.txt

[fmk2]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:47 PM, Techman said:

I'm running out of suggestions.

Try doing a factory reset on one of the devices then a restore device. The only possibility I can think of is that the link tables are missing some links.

Sorry, I should have posted my fix some time ago.

I did finally fix this by doing exactly what @Techmansuggested.  I ended up doing a factory reset and a restore on all 15 2477D switches in my house.  It was a nuisance, but it solved the problem.

I don't know what caused this problem initially.  We did have a brief power outage in late November, so perhaps that scrambled things in the ISY?  But we've had subsequent outages and there hasn't been any problems afterward, so who knows.

Thanks for the assistance.

[Techman]

The problem was most likely in the switches, not the ISY, as a restore device writes the link tables stored in the ISY back to the devices. It's possible that the power outage didn't play well with the switches. Glad you got it resolved. 

It's a good idea to have the ISY, but not the PLM, on a UPS. In the event of a power line disruption the ISY, and its data, will be protected.

[vandy]

Hi,

Well I did a factory reset and reinstalled and got the same thing, however I did find if I set the on level of the 2477D to 100% the system reports 100% correctly but if I set the 2477D to 40% it will report 40% when the light is at 100%. The problem with setting the 2477D to 100% is I don’t want the light to go to 100% when I turn it on. If I set the 2477D to a on  level of 0 and when I turn it on it will go to full on but report 0 level. It looks like when the 2477D is used to adjust the scene light level it will not report any value higher than its set level, like set at 10% that is the highest value it will report. If I do a Query of the 2477D it will report correctly but I can't Query that switch all the time, any ideas?

[apostolakisl]

7 minutes ago, vandy said:

Hi,

Well I did a factory reset and reinstalled and got the same thing, however I did find if I set the on level of the 2477D to 100% the system reports 100% correctly but if I set the 2477D to 40% it will report 40% when the light is at 100%. The problem with setting the 2477D to 100% is I don’t want the light to go to 100% when I turn it on. If I set the 2477D to a on  level of 0 and when I turn it on it will go to full on but report 0 level. It looks like when the 2477D is used to adjust the scene light level it will not report any value higher than its set level, like set at 10% that is the highest value it will report. If I do a Query of the 2477D it will report correctly but I can't Query that switch all the time, any ideas?

 

You have missing links.  You will need to delete the device from ISY, factory reset the device, then add it back.  You will need to of course rebuild all the scenes and programs that the switch is part of.  I find it easiest to do screen shots of this stuff to be certain I get it all back correct.

 

EDIT:  Outside chance if you do a "restore plm" it might fix it too.

Edited January 19, 2023 by apostolakisl

[vandy]

I removed all of the devices from the scene, deleted the scene then deleted the 2477D from the system and reset it to factory settings. I recreated the scene inserted the 2334-222 KeyPad Button C and the Mini Remote 2342-232 Button B into the scene. I then reinstalled the 2477D device into ISY and inserted it into the scene. I set all of the brightness values a before and tested, same thing.

Now for the fix, I created a program that tested for the 2477D switch on level being >= 40%, this is the value that is set in the 2477D on level and if true I set the 2477D on level to 100%, this does change the lighting level but allows the switch to read values above 40% and if not the else sets it to 40%. The device now reports correctly from 0 to 100%

Thank you all for the help.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, vandy said:

I removed all of the devices from the scene, deleted the scene then deleted the 2477D from the system and reset it to factory settings. I recreated the scene inserted the 2334-222 KeyPad Button C and the Mini Remote 2342-232 Button B into the scene. I then reinstalled the 2477D device into ISY and inserted it into the scene. I set all of the brightness values a before and tested, same thing.

 

Now for the fix, I created a program that tested for the 2477D switch on level being >= 40%, this is the value that is set in the 2477D on level and if true I set the 2477D on level to 100%, this does change the lighting level but allows the switch to read values above 40% and if not the else sets it to 40%. The device now reports correctly from 0 to 100%

 

Thank you all for the help.

This happens sometimes, I don't know how.  The PLM can lose links, and somehow those links also get lost from ISY, since restore PLM should fix it but doesn't always.  At that point, the only solution is to delete it and start over from scratch.  Glad you got it done.  The bummer is if your device is in a bunch of scenes and programs. 

[vandy]

Thank you for the response, I did take a spare 2477D I have and did a factory reset and installed it into the program. I then created a new scene and put the new switch in the new scene and that is all. The switch on level is set at 100% and the ramp is at .5 sec. I set the scene on level to 40% and ramp at 6.5 sec. When I turn on the scene from ISY it goes to 40% but when I turn on the scene from the new switch it goes to 100% just as my other scene was doing. Now I set the new switch on level to 40% and ramp rate to 6.5 sec. and when turned on from ISY it goes to 40% and from the switch it goes to 40% but in both cases when I tap the top pad again it goes to 100% but reports only 40% just as the other scene. It is not the switches or the scene or the other switches in the scene because they are not in this scene. I will take a look at other switches in my system and see how the report back, I just found this because I wanted to test for 100%. Is it the nature of the beast?

Thank you again

[MrBill]

@vandyAre you aware you need to set scene parameters multiple times?  Once for the root or top level of the scene, then click on each RED scene controller link and adjust the scene parameters there?  

It's a feature... the scene can operate differently based on where it was turned on.  It's also annoying because the scene has to be manually configured for each controller in the scene.

[apostolakisl]

@vandy what mr bill said.  In the old days you could hit a single button "copy scene to all devices" or something like that, but when ISY started supporting things besides Insteon, I guess that tool conflicted and they got rid of it.  So now you have to go through and set your device on level and ramp rate for each of the controlling devices.  Understand that the primary scene is when ISY/PLM is the controller.  ISY/PLM as controller isn't really any different than any of the other controllers, but the way it is displayed in ISY it seems different.  Keep in mind, you don't have to set the settings the same, you could have the same scene turn on differently depending on which of the controlling devices you used to turn it on.  As Mr. Bill said, this is something you might want.  For example, you might have a scene in your bedroom, when you turn it on from a switch next to your bed, you might want the devices to come on dim, but when you turn it on from the door you might want it bright.

[vandy]

This is from my first post "Hi, I am having the same type of problem with a 2477D switch that is install in a scene along with a 2334-222 KeypadLinc 8 Button and a 2342-232 Mini Remote bottom. I am turning the 2477D on to 40% at the switch, 40% from the Mini Remote and 60% from the 2334-222 and all report the correct value when on.". I have not copied anything and all was installed as stated. This is a scene for my master bathroom and the low light is for getting up at night. The KeyPadLinc is at the bedroom entrance and the mini remote is in the bed with us. If you have 2477D's installed that on is set less than 100% turn it on at the preset value and then turn it on full 100% and look at what it is reporting. Please let me know what you find.

 

 

[kclenden]

4 hours ago, vandy said:

Is it the nature of the beast?

Yes.  I believe it is the nature of the beast.  I setup a switch exactly as you described and got the same results.  So then I watched what was going on communication-wise via the Event Viewer in the Admin Console.  Here's a synopsis:

• With Switch OFF - Tap top of switch.  Light slowly comes up to 40%.  In Admin Console, Status shows as 40%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DON] status received from switch which means "Device ON".
• With Switch at 40% - Tap top of switch.  Light slowly comes up to 100%.  In Admin Console, Status still shows 40%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DON] status received from switch.
• With Switch at 100% - Tap bottom of switch.  Light slowly goes off.  In Admin Console, Status shows 0%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DOF] status received from the switch which means "Device OFF"
• With Switch OFF - Tap top of switch.  Light slowly comes up to 40%.  In Admin Console, Status shows as 40%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DON] status received from switch.
• With Switch at 40%  - Double tap top of switch.  Light immediately goes to 100%.  In Admin Console, Status shows 100%.  In Event Viewer, I see [DFON] status received from switch which means "Device Fast ON"
• With Switch at 100% - Tap bottom of switch.  Light slowly goes off.  In Admin Console, Status shows 0%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DOF] status received from the switch.
• With Switch OFF - Tap top of switch.  Light slowly comes up to 40%.  In Admin Console, Status shows as 40%.  In Event Viewer, I see a [DON] status received from switch
• With Switch at 40% - Press and hold top of switch until light fades up a bit.  In Admin Console, Status shows 72%.  In Event Viewer, I see [FDUP] and [FDSTOP] statuses received from switch which means "Device Fade Up" and "Device Fade Stop".

So the issue appears to be an Insteon limitation.  From the above test, it appears that when you turn ON a switch it only sends a status that says it was turned on, but not at what level.  The ISY, knowing that the switch has been set to a 40% On Level, sets the status to 40% whenever it sees an DON status.  I suppose they could try to be smart and monitor how many DON statuses have been received in a row from a switch, but I'm sure they had a reason for not doing that.

Edited January 20, 2023 by kclenden

[vandy]

Thank you for your reply, I was starting to think I was going nuts and the only person that has this issue. I used just the new switch I installed that is not connected to anything and setting on my desk. It does the same thing and I took some pictures of it but don't know if it is worth posting.

I had not tested the double tap of the stitch, I just don't use it that much. My fix with the little program is working very well for what I need for the test of 100%. I start an AutoCirc with it, my water heater is at one end of my home and the bathroom is at the other..

Thank you so very much for taking the time to test this for me and posting your findings.

 

[kclenden]

16 hours ago, vandy said:

Now for the fix, I created a program that tested for the 2477D switch on level being >= 40%, this is the value that is set in the 2477D on level and if true I set the 2477D on level to 100%, this does change the lighting level but allows the switch to read values above 40% and if not the else sets it to 40%. The device now reports correctly from 0 to 100%

I don't think I understand how you wrote your program.  If I code it as you indicated above, I get

If
        'DR-Chandelier' On Level >= 40%
 
Then
        In 'DR-Chandelier' Set 'DR-Chandelier' To 100% in 6.5 seconds
 
Else
        In 'DR-Chandelier' Set 'DR-Chandelier' To 40% in 6.5 seconds
 

Not only does this not have any effect when I turn the light ON (first to 40% then with second tap to 100%), I don't see how it could fix your problem.  Instead, I wrote this program

If
        'DR-Chandelier' is switched On
 
Then
        
        // Must wait at least as long as Ramp Rate or ISY will get a result
        // before the device is fully at its set On Level
 
        Wait  8 seconds
        Set 'DR-Chandelier' Query
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Now whenever the switch is tapped (either first or second time), the ISY will query the switch to determine at what percentage it is, after waiting longer than the ramp rate so that it doesn't receive a percentage from the switch before it has fully brightened.

Edited January 20, 2023 by kclenden

[vandy]

Again, thank you for the feedback and you nailed my program it is spot on. And yes, it looks like your program will work and I will test when I can see again, just came from eye doctor. I did test my program again and looked at the event log and after setting the on level to 100% the 2477D bathroom switch does return its on level value each time I bump up the light level a little. It reads correctly in the ISY App and on my UD Mobile App. It looks as if the 2477D will not return the status of the on level above its set on level but will return a value on its status below its set on level.

Thank you again for all the support.

ISY-Events-Log.v5.5.2__Fri 2023.01.20 10.32.15 AM.txt