Zooz ZEN32 & eisy 5.5.5 = Missing Double Press Option

[TRI0N]

After finally getting 5.5.5 back into working condition I noticed they added on options for the Zooz ZEN32 Scene Controller. However it appears to be missing Double Press (On) or 2 x Press (On) [whichever way the setting is being identified] option for the scene buttons.



JUST a FYI

TRI0N

[asbril]

59 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

After finally getting 5.5.5 back into working condition I noticed they added on options for the Zooz ZEN32 Scene Controller. However it appears to be missing Double Press (On) or 2 x Press (On) [whichever way the setting is being identified] option for the scene buttons.



JUST a FYI

TRI0N

I am puzzled.....  I have my Zooz ZEN 32 working with the main button (no load) to run a program which turns ON/OFF various devices. The 4 lower buttons each correspond to a different device with 1 click ON and 2 clicks OFF. It came over from Polisy with the migration.

What puzzles me is that when I look at the lower  buttons programs they do not seem to make sense :

ON

OFF

Though here it only shows "switched"   in the condition window of the AC for both ON and OFF it shows the same ON :

I expected the control to be ON for ON and OFF for OFF, but apparently it is also ON for OFF.

I would have to look up the manual, but maybe the double click is automatically OFF.

Edited February 12, 2023 by asbril

[TRI0N]

2 minutes ago, asbril said:

I am puzzled.....  I have my Zooz ZEN 32 working with the main button (no load) to run a program which turns ON/OFF variois devices. The 4 lower buttons each correspond to a different device with 1 click ON and 2 clicks OFF. It came over from Polisy with the migration.

What puzzles me is that when I look at the lower  buttons programs they do not seem to make sense :

ON

OFF

Though here it only shows "switched"   in the condition window of the AC for both ON and OFF it shows the same ON :

I expected the control to be ON for ON and OFF for OFF, but apparently it is also ON for OFF.

I would have to look up the manual, but maybe the double click is automatically OFF.

What I was able to figure out before 5.5.5 and getting my first Zen32 for the eisy on my mission to eliminate Insteon from my network.

I whipped this image up to help people understand the layout of the buttons and scene associations.


Hope this helps understand the layout and the buttons assignments.


TRI0N

[TRI0N]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

I am puzzled.....  I have my Zooz ZEN 32 working with the main button (no load) to run a program which turns ON/OFF various devices. The 4 lower buttons each correspond to a different device with 1 click ON and 2 clicks OFF. It came over from Polisy with the migration.

What puzzles me is that when I look at the lower  buttons programs they do not seem to make sense :

ON

OFF

Though here it only shows "switched"   in the condition window of the AC for both ON and OFF it shows the same ON :

I expected the control to be ON for ON and OFF for OFF, but apparently it is also ON for OFF.

I would have to look up the manual, but maybe the double click is automatically OFF.

Depending on the device such as your "MBR Entrance" it can be setup to be on/off with indicator light working. But it really depends on what the device is in the scene right now. It has to be another z-wave device to get the on/off working correctly which works great for my relay's but not so helpful for my HUE Lights in Shower. Those have to use the 2 tap off.

It looks like it imported your programs just fine if they work. I wouldn't change a thing or save changes to those ZEN32 programs. It might have imported the double tap instructions but it is not showing it as an option. So you might not be able to reset that if you goof. I also believe that is the default behavior for the scene buttons based on their internal programing parameters. But you can make them become single push toggles for other Z-Wave products. 

Also here is a good link to parameter settings.
https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/608-zen32-scene-controller-advanced-settings/

For changing lights, click behaviors. For non-toggle I just keep the light on for the multi-press scene needs.

 

TRI0N

Edited February 12, 2023 by TRI0N

[asbril]

5 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

Depending on the device such as your "MBR Entrance" it can be setup to be on/off with indicator light working. But it really depends on what the device is in the scene right now. It has to be another z-wave device to get the on/off working correctly which works great for my relay's but not so helpful for my HUE Lights in Shower. Those have to use the 2 tap off.

It looks like it imported your programs just fine if they work. I wouldn't change a thing or save changes to those ZEN32 programs. It might have imported the double tap instructions but it is not showing it as an option. So you might not be able to reset that if you goof. I also believe that is the default behavior for the scene buttons based on their internal programing parameters. But you can make them become single push toggles for other Z-Wave products. 

Also here is a good link to parameter settings.
https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/608-zen32-scene-controller-advanced-settings/

For changing lights, click behaviors. For non-toggle I just keep the light on for the multi-press scene needs.

 

TRI0N

You are probably right. I saved those instructions somewhere for if & when I goof up.

[SteveT]

I am having different issues w/this device - I just installed a ZEN32, and do not see any of the options you have to control.  Did you do something special to include it?

I just updated to 5.5.6 Polisy (and am using the ZMatter board), but only see Button 1-5, and Basic Assoc 2,4,6,8,10.  None of the buttons have any controllable options except query.

I did the smart inclusion, (with the QR code), but also tried re-interview - additional nodes did not show.

Any ideas, or tricks?

thanks,

Steve

[TRI0N]

10 hours ago, SteveT said:

I am having different issues w/this device - I just installed a ZEN32, and do not see any of the options you have to control.  Did you do something special to include it?

I just updated to 5.5.6 Polisy (and am using the ZMatter board), but only see Button 1-5, and Basic Assoc 2,4,6,8,10.  None of the buttons have any controllable options except query.

I did the smart inclusion, (with the QR code), but also tried re-interview - additional nodes did not show.

Any ideas, or tricks?

thanks,

Steve

Actually you use the Associations as far as I know will only work with other Z-Wave Devices as a Scene Controller. With a Z-Wave Relay that I use for different lights that have no switches, for example, my kitchen pendent lights are wired to a Z-Wave Relay so I can assign it to a scene. I would add the Relay and the Button as responders and then add the corresponding Basic Assoc Only as a controller in a scene.



Then I would click the Scene Object Controller "ZY 002 Basic Assoc Only 6" and we need to set the ZY 005 On-Off Power Switch default link type to Z-Wave Basic MC.



Now ZY 005 On-Off Power Switch is actually that Z-Wave Relay I was talking about.




That is the only way that I'm aware of that you can actually make the button work as a Scene. At this time it does NOT work using other types of devices that I'm aware of. This needing programs to respond to Double Push, Three Push, Four Push and 5 Push options... I can make one push turn on lets say a HUE Recess Light. I would then program it so that two pushes turns it off (right now we have to do 3, the double push option is missing and I'm sure it will be added by UD soon).


TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N

[TRI0N]

8 hours ago, SteveT said:

I am having different issues w/this device - I just installed a ZEN32, and do not see any of the options you have to control.  Did you do something special to include it?

I just updated to 5.5.6 Polisy (and am using the ZMatter board), but only see Button 1-5, and Basic Assoc 2,4,6,8,10.  None of the buttons have any controllable options except query.

I did the smart inclusion, (with the QR code), but also tried re-interview - additional nodes did not show.

Any ideas, or tricks?

thanks,

Steve

Also do you know how to set the parameter's of a z-wave device?

If not, you would right click the one that is Binary Switch > Z-Wave Menu > Set Configuration Parameter

I provided a link to the Zooz ZEN32 Advanced Features link above that will explain what parameters are available. You can select a Parameter number then click Query to see what the current setting is for that parameter.


TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N

[kzboray]

@TRI0NThere are multiple discussions about the Zen32, but simply put Zooz will not program the necessary changes to allow the 4 smaller buttons to function in scenes, they give reasons for this that sound mostly like excuses. The real reason is probably due to their inability to make the changes; not enough memory available, lack of skill in house, etc, take your pick. So you have to use programs to maintain the button lights on the 4 smaller buttons.

[TRI0N]

1 minute ago, kzboray said:

@TRI0NThere are multiple discussions about the Zen32, but simply put Zooz will not program the necessary changes to allow the 4 smaller buttons to function in scenes, they give reasons for this that sound mostly like excuses. The real reason is probably due to their inability to make the changes; not enough memory available, lack of skill in house, etc, take your pick. So you have to use programs to maintain the button lights on the 4 smaller buttons.

I just provided an example of it working in a scene without programs. It requires that all devices at this time being Z-Wave. It won't work with Z-Wave to Kasa or Z-Wave to Hue... 

TRI0N

[kzboray]

@TRI0N Just to clarify...Using one of the 4 smaller buttons you were able to add them to a scene, or just the top larger button?

[TRI0N]

Button 2 is NOT the Primary Binary Switch. yes its the small middle button to the right under the big Binary Switch also known as Scene Button 5. See above image map I created.

TRI0N

[kzboray]

@TRI0N Thank you! I'll have to read through the entire post, appreciate the info!

[TRI0N]

What I ended up doing for anything I needed for a toggle that wasn't a Z-Wave for it turned off on one push was make a program that just simply checks if Scene Button # On (it does send this and it does trigger even when it's constantly reporting "On" in Query) and to see if, for example, Govee Under Cabinet Light Strips status is On, Then set Govee Lights to Off, Else set Govee Lights to On.

Every time you press the button once it's just sending a On status. 


TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

I go over this here the two methods for using Zen32 buttons... zwave basic association and programming. Although basic assoc works for on/off to control another zwave device, the button state will get out of sync if you turn on/off the actual zwave device manually and will have to press Zen32 button twice. I believe that programs are the best option if want to keep LEDs in sync, and also that way supports other devices to control like Insteon.

 

@TRI0N it supports 2x press, select Fast On in the pulldown  It is a carry-over nomenclature from Insteon, where a double-tap on an Insteon switch is called fast on or fast off.

 

 

[brians]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:43 PM, asbril said:

I am puzzled.....  I have my Zooz ZEN 32 working with the main button (no load) to run a program which turns ON/OFF various devices. The 4 lower buttons each correspond to a different device with 1 click ON and 2 clicks OFF. It came over from Polisy with the migration.

What puzzles me is that when I look at the lower  buttons programs they do not seem to make sense :

ON

OFF

Though here it only shows "switched"   in the condition window of the AC for both ON and OFF it shows the same ON :

I expected the control to be ON for ON and OFF for OFF, but apparently it is also ON for OFF.

I would have to look up the manual, but maybe the double click is automatically OFF.

Copy program to clipboard and paste instead of the screenshot. Double tap should be is Fast On. It is also possible that during migration to EISY, your programs are missing things to display correct even though they are actually working. Make an entire new program with Fast On and temporarily disable this one and see if that works if you are scared of breaking things. Also usually clicking on something and hit save, or maybe making a comment and save may fix/rewrite the program properly in the system.

[asbril]

1 hour ago, brians said:

Copy program to clipboard and paste instead of the screenshot. Double tap should be is Fast On. It is also possible that during migration to EISY, your programs are missing things to display correct even though they are actually working. Make an entire new program with Fast On and temporarily disable this one and see if that works if you are scared of breaking things. Also usually clicking on something and hit save, or maybe making a comment and save may fix/rewrite the program properly in the system.

2b. Kitchen Remote A OFF - [ID 0017][Parent 000E]

If
        '17. Kitchen / Wall remotes / ZY 149 SC Basic Control' is switched Off
 
Then
        Wait  1 second
        Set '17. Kitchen / 1. Kitchen Ceiling' Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Now it actually shows OFF, as it should. I do not have an option for FAST ON or FAST OFF :

It works, so no worries

 

[brians]

14 minutes ago, asbril said:

2b. Kitchen Remote A OFF - [ID 0017][Parent 000E]

If
        '17. Kitchen / Wall remotes / ZY 149 SC Basic Control' is switched Off
 
Then
        Wait  1 second
        Set '17. Kitchen / 1. Kitchen Ceiling' Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Now it actually shows OFF, as it should. I do not have an option for FAST ON or FAST OFF :

It works, so no worries

 

Since you named it with "Basic Control" this hints at me that you are using the basic association nodes in your programs. Can you show the actual node address of that?

My programs instead use the central scene button 1 ZYxxx_201N001 and you may be using ZYxxx_252N004 for basic association (eg. if button 1). which could explain this... for example both these nodes will respond to button 1 press. From my understanding how Zen32 buttons work, and if this is the way you are doing then you should not have to press it twice, unless it got out of sync by the light being turned on/off elsewhere.

[TRI0N]

2 hours ago, brians said:

@TRI0N it supports 2x press, select Fast On in the pulldown  It is a carry-over nomenclature from Insteon, where a double-tap on an Insteon switch is called fast on or fast off.

 

 

Ah! That explains it... Great! Now that solves the 2 x Press... Works like a charm. That isn't so bad in my opinion for some needs. Like the Hue recess shower lights, while I have dressing mirror, wash area, etc on Z-wave. I can set 3, 4, 5, to scene colors.  Simply find the color arrangement you want and then query the light for the light settings for each light and then make program to assign to the scene button taps.  Otherwise I still agree we need a out of Z-Wave easy toggle for other devices that don't use the scene features. 


TRI0N

[brians]

4 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

Ah! That explains it... Great! Now that solves the 2 x Press... Works like a charm. That isn't so bad in my opinion for some needs. Like the Hue recess shower lights, while I have dressing mirror, wash area, etc on Z-wave. I can set 3, 4, 5, to scene colors.  Simply find the color arrangement you want and then query the light for the light settings for each light and then make program to assign to the scene button taps.  Otherwise I still agree we need a out of Z-Wave easy toggle for other devices that don't use the scene features. 


TRI0N

My programs I linked to a few posts up solve the toggle problem for non-zwave lights... go check them out. I use to control/toggle a zwave light and insteon light from same button and Zen32 LED stays in sync no matter how the lights were turned on/off.

For philips hue, I am thinking of getting a starter kit. Are you using the node server or network resources? Seems simple but could be a big time waster

 

[TRI0N]

7 minutes ago, brians said:

My programs I linked to a few posts up solve the toggle problem for non-zwave lights... go check them out. I use to control/toggle a zwave light and insteon light from same button and Zen32 LED stays in sync no matter how the lights were turned on/off.

For philips hue, I am thinking of getting a starter kit. Are you using the node server or network resources? Seems simple but could be a big time waster

 

Using the Node Server and it's working great. Showing everything... Here's a snap shot.




TRI0N

[asbril]

1 hour ago, brians said:

Since you named it with "Basic Control" this hints at me that you are using the basic association nodes in your programs. Can you show the actual node address of that?

My programs instead use the central scene button 1 ZYxxx_201N001 and you may be using ZYxxx_252N004 for basic association (eg. if button 1). which could explain this... for example both these nodes will respond to button 1 press. From my understanding how Zen32 buttons work, and if this is the way you are doing then you should not have to press it twice, unless it got out of sync by the light being turned on/off elsewhere.

This is interesting. I do not having Scene nodes :

I am up-to-date with IoX (5.5.6)

[TRI0N]

2 hours ago, asbril said:

2b. Kitchen Remote A OFF - [ID 0017][Parent 000E]

If
        '17. Kitchen / Wall remotes / ZY 149 SC Basic Control' is switched Off
 
Then
        Wait  1 second
        Set '17. Kitchen / 1. Kitchen Ceiling' Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Now it actually shows OFF, as it should. I do not have an option for FAST ON or FAST OFF :

It works, so no worries

 

You're using "Control" rather than "Device" where you can set Fast On, Double Press, 3 x Press, etc...

My bad that is correct... I think you just need to repopulate our nodes from your Z-Wave...

TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N

[TRI0N]

8 minutes ago, asbril said:

This is interesting. I do not having Scene nodes :

I am up-to-date with IoX (5.5.6)

Refresh your Z-Wave device since update. Nodes may appear. Right click the Z-Wave Device for menu, Z-Wave > Refresh

This should repopulate any missing nodes.


TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N

[TRI0N]

45 minutes ago, asbril said:

This is interesting. I do not having Scene nodes :

I am up-to-date with IoX (5.5.6)

This doesn't look like a ZEN32 node. ZY 149 looks like a motion sensor to me... 


TRI0N

Edited February 14, 2023 by TRI0N