Bladerunner Posted November 7 Posted November 7 I have some Insteon but primarily X10 still operating on Eisy. Those X10 devices correctly show on, off, dim, bright command in eisy and in UD Mobile. However, when those entities come over into Home Assistant, I only get on and off commands. Is there anyway to also get the dim and bright commands to carry over into Home Assistant? This is the only issue I have had getting full functionality into Home Assistant. Quote
IndyMike Posted November 8 Posted November 8 @Bladerunner, I do not have any X10 dimmers to verify, but Insteon dimmers do show "levels". Your logs will only reflect on/off. However there is an entity associated with Insteon dimmers that will show the current on level. Go to Settings/Devices and Services/Universal Devices ISY xxxx. Click on Entities and search for a dimmer on your system. The following is what I have for one of my 2477D's. Note that the dim # is 102 (102/255 = .4). You can use the dimmer level in automations as a trigger or a qualifier. Quote
Brian H Posted November 8 Posted November 8 One possibility is that Smarthome modules and Insteon modules. Used a different dim command %Dim. X10 used extended and the original full on and dim back down. I don't have your program. If it is sending the original on full and then dim commands it may work. If it is using %dim commands. X10 modules do not respond to them. Quote
shbatm Posted November 9 Posted November 9 (edited) On 11/7/2024 at 2:10 PM, Bladerunner said: Is there anyway to also get the dim and bright commands to carry over into Home Assistant? This is the only issue I have had getting full functionality into Home Assistant. You can use the isy994.send_node_command actions in Home Assistant to send dim/brighten to specific nodes. This can either be used in automation/scripts or custom buttons with tap_action assigned to call the action. X10 dimmers that don't support setting an exact brightness level do not have a native translation to a Home Assistant 'light'. Side note : this also works for Insteon scenes to dim/brighten. Edited November 9 by shbatm Quote
Bladerunner Posted November 9 Author Posted November 9 My device is a an old X10 wall switch. It will turn on with a press, off with a press, dim and brighten on hold, accepts on, off, dim, brighten from an X10 console. In UD Mobile, I can on, off, brighten, dim. The dim and brighten are incrementals of course, % not supported. Neither is status (different issue to address). Here's the code that I created in a script, just an action. However, the light did not act on either brighten or dim script actions. Any thoughts as to what I did wrong? Was hoping the node command would get it. I'm really new on HA but learning, that time when it's easy to make mistakes. action: isy994.send_node_command metadata: {} data: command: brighten target: entity_id: switch.bedroom_master_ceiling_light Quote
IndyMike Posted November 9 Posted November 9 8 hours ago, Bladerunner said: My device is a an old X10 wall switch. It will turn on with a press, off with a press, dim and brighten on hold, accepts on, off, dim, brighten from an X10 console. In UD Mobile, I can on, off, brighten, dim. The dim and brighten are incrementals of course, % not supported. Neither is status (different issue to address). Here's the code that I created in a script, just an action. However, the light did not act on either brighten or dim script actions. Any thoughts as to what I did wrong? Was hoping the node command would get it. I'm really new on HA but learning, that time when it's easy to make mistakes. action: isy994.send_node_command metadata: {} data: command: brighten target: entity_id: switch.bedroom_master_ceiling_light Your X10 dimmers are most likely 1-way (receive only) devices. There is no "status" or "query" available. There were very few X10 2-way units produced. Again - I do not have any X10 dimmers to verify. I did code a quick script for one of my Insteon Dimmers using the Visual Editor in HA. Two tricks in the following: For action, you need to select "Perform action ....." Do not use the "Device" or "Light" entries that are available. For Target - Select "entity". This will present a list of ISY entities on your system. Choose your X10 unit Command will bring up a list of commands available for your device. I chose "Brighten" The following works for Insteon devices. The Yaml code generated by the visual editor is shown below. There are some differences from your code (I'm not a Yaml master). The most significant item may be that your entity is labeled as a "switch". Chances are it will be On/OFF only. Not sure if there is a way for the X10 devices to come over as a "light" which would allow dimming. Yaml code generated: alias: Brighten sequence: - action: isy994.send_node_command target: entity_id: light.bsmt_fam_rm_sconce data: command: brighten description: "" Quote
Diesel Posted November 9 Posted November 9 I don't have any X10 devices but wonder if HA assigned the device type as a switch [On/Off] rather than a light [On/Off/Bright/Dim]. In HA, go to Settings | Devices & Services | and search for the device name on the Entities tab... Does the Entity ID start with switch.[devicename] or light.[devicename]? Quote
IndyMike Posted November 9 Posted November 9 After a little looking, I found an old LM465 lamp dimmer in the spare parts bin. Added it to the ISY as a Generic A10 device @address M3. Home Assistant brought the device in as a Switch - HOWEVER, it does allow me to send brighten/dim commands to the ISY node. The following script correctly brightens the LM465 (as shown by the ISY event monitor). So much for my educated guesses - always test Home Assistant script: alias: X10 Bright sequence: - action: isy994.send_node_command target: entity_id: switch.a10_device data: command: brighten description: "" ISY Event Monitor: Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:48 AM : [ X10] M3 Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:48 AM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 02 00 06 Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:48 AM : [ X10] M3/Bright (7) Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:49 AM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 05 80 06 Quote
Bladerunner Posted November 11 Author Posted November 11 Thanks for taking the time to try that. Nice to know others have old parts boxes too. And I would think that the LM465 is a pretty good match for the old wall switch. I did create a ticket to ask for support on this question. I am suspicious of the device definitions but the event viewer and my ACT004 meter don't show a difference. I got out my ACT 004 meter tonight, finally got back to this. I tried commands from a 16 button X10 controller, from UD Mobile, so removing HA altogether. UD Mobile is also failing to brighten or dim on these old wall switches, even though the X10 controller module dims and brightens just fine. I did notice that I used the type of X10 on those old switches while I had used A10 for the newer Insteons I installed that respond to an X10 code. The event viewer shows the same command for F2 (which functions) and G14 (which does not function). The ACT 004 meter shows a valid F2 DIM and a valid G14 DIM as well, the same displayed as the X10 controller. Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : Create REST U7 [/rest/nodes/FF%2007%200E%201/cmd/BRT] Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : U7 Rest: submitCmd([FF 07 0E 1],[BRT],[<NULL>]) Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : [ X10] G14 Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : [ X10] G14/Bright (7) Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:23 : Create REST U7 [/rest/nodes/FF%2006%2002%201/cmd/BRT] Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : U7 Rest: submitCmd([FF 06 02 1],[BRT],[<NULL>]) Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : [ X10] F2 Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : [ X10] F2/Bright (7) Here's the XRay of each of those devices. <nodeInfo> <node flag="128" nodeDefId="X10"> <address>FF 06 02 1</address> <name>Family Room Fan Light</name> <hint>0.0.0.0</hint> <type>113.2.0.0</type> <enabled>true</enabled> <deviceClass>0</deviceClass> <wattage>0</wattage> <dcPeriod>0</dcPeriod> <startDelay>0</startDelay> <endDelay>0</endDelay> <pnode>FF 06 02 1</pnode> <property name="" uom="100" formatted="On" value="255" id="ST"/> </node> <properties> <property name="" uom="100" formatted="On" value="255" id="ST"/> </properties> </nodeInfo> <nodeInfo> <node flag="128" nodeDefId="X10"> <address>FF 07 0E 1</address> <name>Bedroom Master Ceiling Light</name> <hint>0.0.0.0</hint> <type>113.1.0.0</type> <enabled>true</enabled> <deviceClass>0</deviceClass> <wattage>0</wattage> <dcPeriod>0</dcPeriod> <startDelay>0</startDelay> <endDelay>0</endDelay> <pnode>FF 07 0E 1</pnode> <property name="" uom="100" formatted="On" value="255" id="ST"/> </node> <properties> <property name="" uom="100" formatted="On" value="255" id="ST"/> </properties> </nodeInfo> Quote
IndyMike Posted November 11 Posted November 11 10 hours ago, Bladerunner said: I did notice that I used the type of X10 on those old switches while I had used A10 for the newer Insteons I installed that respond to an X10 code. The event viewer shows the same command for F2 (which functions) and G14 (which does not function). The ACT 004 meter shows a valid F2 DIM and a valid G14 DIM as well, the same displayed as the X10 controller. Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : Create REST U7 [/rest/nodes/FF%2007%200E%201/cmd/BRT] Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : U7 Rest: submitCmd([FF 07 0E 1],[BRT],[<NULL>]) Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : [ X10] G14 Sun 11/10/2024 22:03:58 : [ X10] G14/Bright (7) Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:23 : Create REST U7 [/rest/nodes/FF%2006%2002%201/cmd/BRT] Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : U7 Rest: submitCmd([FF 06 02 1],[BRT],[<NULL>]) Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : [ X10] F2 Sun 11/10/2024 22:04:24 : [ X10] F2/Bright (7) @Bladerunner, I have tried both the A10 and X10 generic types on the ISY994. I don't see a difference. One curious thing that I do NOT see in your event viewer - a response from the PLM. If you look at my log below, you'll see the "X10-RSP" from the PLM confirming the command. This could be a difference between your EISY and my old ISY994, but it's something to check out. Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:48 AM : [ X10] M3 Sat 11/09/2024 09:53:48 AM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 02 00 06 Other than the fact that there is no PLM response, the commands look correct. You stated that the F2 command works but the G14 doesn't. If these are difference end devices, I would suspect communication issues. I'm assuming you've been using X10 in your system for some time. Any chance you lost your phase coupling/repeater. Any new signal absorbers - it is the season when all the Christmas decorations start coming out, wreaking havoc on us HA types. 1 Quote
Bladerunner Posted November 12 Author Posted November 12 Yes, I saw that response but I thought it was the LM465 responding. Yes, signal suckers. I had noticed some missed commands a while back. I got out the ACT004 and found some noise at the crossover. But it turned out the laptop power supply from my wife's laptop was sucking signal. I added a block to that location and the signal greatly improved. I found noise from some dimmed incandescents and turned them off. So noise was gone and the signal killer was taken care of. What's funny is that the ON and OFF commands work perfect. If it was noise or signal suck, I would at least get some intermittent dim or bright commands to work. I did find a newer Leviton paddle switch is also not responding to dim or bright commands. And it is on a different circuit. I need to do more investigation into this. I have a trouble ticket open as well for his opinion on this. I have the ACT phase coupler/repeater. I do believe it is functioning. I will double check that however. Quote
Bladerunner Posted November 12 Author Posted November 12 Still Investigating. I did find that I could dim/brt two other bedrooms. They are on a different circuit. I was able, via UD Mobile, to change these rooms. The master bedroom and bath, that are not responding to dim/brt, are on the same circuit! The two rooms that are dimming and brightening have the same X10 switch module as the master bedroom. So, it's not that. Now I need to start disconnecting/testing to see what's affecting that line to such a degree. It's so odd that it's just the dim and brt that aren't working. More to come! Quote
IndyMike Posted November 12 Posted November 12 10 hours ago, Bladerunner said: Yes, I saw that response but I thought it was the LM465 responding. Yes, signal suckers. I had noticed some missed commands a while back. I got out the ACT004 and found some noise at the crossover. But it turned out the laptop power supply from my wife's laptop was sucking signal. I added a block to that location and the signal greatly improved. I found noise from some dimmed incandescents and turned them off. So noise was gone and the signal killer was taken care of. What's funny is that the ON and OFF commands work perfect. If it was noise or signal suck, I would at least get some intermittent dim or bright commands to work. I did find a newer Leviton paddle switch is also not responding to dim or bright commands. And it is on a different circuit. I need to do more investigation into this. I have a trouble ticket open as well for his opinion on this. I have the ACT phase coupler/repeater. I do believe it is functioning. I will double check that however. Good sleuthing, I'm guessing this isn't your 1st rodeo. I didn't understand that the On/Off commands work but the dim commands don't. That is odd. I don't know of any theory that supports loss of dim/brt because of noise or loading. I'm thinking I sent you down a bad path there. I do vaguely remember having problems with Leviton dimmers on my old CM11a. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with the resume dim feature. Do you have a idea of which model dimmers work and which models don't? I can remember some of the higher end ACT, PCS, and Leviton dimmers had programmable features. Some could be set to emulate a traditional switch. Quote
Bladerunner Posted Tuesday at 06:03 AM Author Posted Tuesday at 06:03 AM IndyMike, That wasn't a bad path. No problem. There were so many evolutions of X10 devices. Bedrooms East and West, and the hallway light are on one circuit. They all respond to all commands. Bedroom Master is on a different circuit with the Bathroom Master, Bathroom Main, and Family Room Video. The three bedrooms all have the same old X10 pushbutton switch. The Bathroom Main has a newer Leviton dimmer. Interestingly, it's the Bedroom Master and Bathroom Main that do not accept the dim and bright commands. This is the circuit that I had to add a block to my wife's laptop power supply and air purifier power supply. Once I did that, the on and off commands were perfectly reliable. I got my AT004 meter back out. The signal level is above the noise level so that explains why they work. what is interesting is that the AT004 recognizes the dim and bright commands, also above the noise level, but the light controls do not act. I have to wonder if there's something about the format of those commands that affects their activation at low message levels. It's very reliable that not one bright or dim works from the PLM. However, the X10 controller on that circuit does dim and bright just fine. I did check and my CR234 ACT signal repeater is working just fine. I see it retransmit without error. So, I think this issue is analyzed to death lol. I might try adding a new circuit just for the family room video system where also my wife's laptop and air purifier are. That would get a lot of power usage as well as noise off that other line. Gotta love how old houses were wired. Until I added a 20amp circuit for the appliances in the Bathroom Master, the wife and daughter couldn't dry their air at the same time. I an also considering pulling these old switches and adding a Shelly WIFI controller at the light fixture. I don't have neutrals in the switch box. Everybody, thanks for the inputs. Debugging X10 was always fun. Running around the house plugging in the AT004 and sending signals was like playing Ghostbusters looking for bad spirits. Quote
IndyMike Posted Tuesday at 02:09 PM Posted Tuesday at 02:09 PM @Bladerunner, something still feels a bit odd here. The fact that you have two different brands on the same circuit with the same problem with BRT/DIM but not ON/OFF. It's possible that your problem X10 switch is a different "vintage" than the others that function. X10 had some supply problems over the years and wound up re-designing their units with no change to markings (other than date codes). These were referred to as soft-start dimmers. While this is possible, I don't remember a particular problem with Dim commands and have no explanation why your X10 controller would function. I'm wondering if your dim commands from the PLM are going though the ACT CR234. Some repeaters only place the 2nd X10 transmission on the opposite phase (all commands are sent twice). That could affect how your dimmers react. You mentioned that you had a 16 button X10 controller that worked well with these lights. If this is a HR12a, could you move the transceiver to the same outlet as the PLM as a test? Wondering if it will exhibit the same issues when the signal is forced to take the same path through your system. If it's more convenient, you could move the PLM to the same phase as the problem circuit to see if that corrects the problem. Quote
Brian H Posted Tuesday at 11:45 PM Posted Tuesday at 11:45 PM (edited) Before Soft Start. On 100% and dim down. After Softstart. Both On 100% and dim down and X10 Extended Dim commands. That was also when the new surface mounted components and different processor where introduced. Smarthome used the On 100% dim down and Preset Dim. Smarthome modules don't respond to X10 Extended dim and X10 don't respond to Smarthome Preset dim. I think Leviton used the Preset dim also. Not sure about the ACT A10 protocol as it is built on X10 commands with added features. Found a file with a small part of one of the PLM developers sheets. DimDif.txt Edited Wednesday at 02:27 AM by Brian H Add a small file. 1 Quote
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