Programming Question for a Shop Dust Collector (Conditional)

[nickcat]

I have a woodworking shop in the garage, that uses a 2420 motion sensor to turn the lights off and on, works fine most of the time unless I'm a bit too stationary while working (but that's a secondary issue at this point).

 

What I would like to accomplish is setting up a conditional program that will only allow the dust collector (running through one of the new 2456S3E ApplianceLincs) to be turned on if the garage lights are on as well. This is more for safety reasons than anything else. I don't want the dust collector to be able to turn on unless the lights are on meaning there is someone working in the garage. I plan to use a RemoteLinc to turn the collector on and off.

 

The secondary issue is a smaller one, but I see now proper control of that is going to have a direct impact on this program, so I might need to get that addressed as well.

 

The motion sensor in the garage currently triggers two icon switches to turn on two banks of lights when motion is detected. After reading through many threads here I know that's NOT the best method to control the loads directly. Can someone post the actual programs they are using to control a similar situation. I would ultimately like to have a way to use the physical icon switch to act as an override so the light will remain on if I want it to stay on.

 

From what I've read I know I'm asking for a lot... So any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting lost in the quagmire of the options for these programs to know the best way to get this done. The only problem I can see right now with the ISY is that there are SO many different ways to accomplish the same programming task, knowing which way is the most efficient and least load on the system seems to be something you'll only learn over time and lots of trial and error.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

-Nick

[oberkc]

I am sorry, but I cannot post exact programming for a similar condition. However, I wanted to be sure that I understood your requirements.

 

1. You want to disable the dust collector if the shop (garage) lights are off, correct?

2. You want to continue to use the remotelinc to turn the dust collector on (but only if the lights are on), correct?

3. Your current lighting design has a scene with the motion sensor and two icon switchs ("directly" controlling the loads). You believe there is a better way, based on what you have seen in the forums. You are looking for suggestions?

 

Regarding the first two, I would first plug the dust collector system into a relay (appliance) module. In the ISY, create a folder with a condition that garage lights are on:

 

If

status of garage light switch A is on
or
status of garage light swith B is on

the

run programs in this folder

 

In this folder I would add a program

 

if

control remotelinc button is turned on
and
control remotelinc button is not turned off

then

set dust collector module on

else

set dust collector module off

 

Regarding the third, if you are satisfied with the way your motion sensor/light scene is working, there is no reason to change it. Having said this, I (and, I believe, most here) use programs with motion sensors rather than scenes. However, this is to allow motion sensors to be active only during certain times of the days, and to better control when the controlled devices go off. There is a pretty lengthy discussion about this in many forums and the wiki, but the programs are generally a variation on this theme:

 

if

control motion sensor is switched on

then

run light program (then path)

else

 

light program:

 

if

then

set garage lights on
wait xx minute
set garage lights off

else

[nickcat]

1. Correct.

2. Correct.

3. Correct.

 

I am using one of the new black outdoor capable 15A appliance units for the dust collector, seems fine in my initial testing.

 

I was able to setup the conditional on the folder no problem, but when trying to setup the program to control the dust collector from the RemoteLinc, I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I thought since the RemoteLinc is a non-status device I can't use it in a program. Under the Insteon choices, I can't see any of my ControLinc or RemoteLinc units. Am I looking in the wrong section?

 

I'm going to work on the motion sensor setup some more, I think the reason it's chewing up my analytical brain is that in this scenario there are literally a million ways to skin this cat! I will get back with the programs I come up with once I get them fleshed out.

 

Thanks for the help... I'll wait on a reply about writing a program with the RemoteLinc... in case I am doing something incorreclty.

 

UPDATE: I just found the way to trigger on the RemoteLinc... so many menus so little knowledge about them!

[LeeG]

The following IF works as a Condition with a RemoteLinc

 

 

If

Control 'REMOTELINC-2 - 2' is switched On

 

 

I see after my post was complete you had updated your post and got it to work. Great Job! Each success leads to more fun.

[nickcat]

I used the examples provided here to correct the motion sensor issues in the garage:

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... _Bathrooms

 

Here are the programs I wound up with so far.

 

Garage Light Motion On

if
 control garage motion is switched on
   and status garage primary light is not on
   and status garage secondary light is not on
then
 set scene garage overhead lighting on

 

Garage Light Motion Timer

if 
 control garage motion is switched off
   and program garage light motion timer enabled is true
then
 wait 5 minutes
 set scene garage overhead lighting off

 

Garage Light Motion Timer Enable

if
 none
then
 set program garage light motion timer enable to run at startup
else
 set program garage light motion timer enable to not run at startup

 

Garage Light Motion Timer Enable/Disable

if
 control remotelinc garage motion is switched on
   and control remotelinc garage motion is not switched off
then
 run program garage light motion timer enable else path
else
 run program garage light motion timer enable then path

 

So in summary, this will turn the lights on when the motion sensor is triggered and shut them off 5 minutes after the last motion is detected. I can choose to override the motion sensor countdown to turn the lights off by using my remotelinc to set the variable to false. So it will still turn the lights on, but not turn them back off. I haven't tested this yet, but the logic sounds pretty valid, and it's pretty much verbatim what's in the wiki.

 

I implemented the dust collector as suggested by oberkc.

 

I have a folder that checks whether or not the garage lights are on, and then send the commands from my remotelinc to a program inside that folder.

 

One question I have... what is the difference between status and control? I understand that not all devices have status (ie. remote and controlincs). So is control simply checking for the command being sent, not the current status of the unit? Do the motion sensors keep sending On commands each time motion is detected, or only once the current motion trigger has timed out?

[LeeG]

My motion sensor does not send additional On commands during the timeout period. The timeout period is reset to a new full timeout value for each motion detected but no additional On commands. The Off command comes only after no motion detected for the full timeout interval.

 

I believe you are correct. An If Control is looking at commands that are flowing and If Status is checking what the ISY thinks is the current device status. I can add an If Status for a RemoteLinc button to a Program.

[oberkc]

One question I have... what is the difference between status and control?

 

The answer to that question appears to have stumped minds far greater than mine. Much has been writen, and discussed, and criticized, and applauded, but I am not sure this is settled.

 

Control, as I think of it, is a momentary condition. Status is more of a continuous condition.

 

Programs and folder are evaluated any time one or more of their conditions are recieved (control) or changed (status). In your example, Garage Light Motion On, it will be evaluated any time the motion sensor is switched on, or any time the status of the primary or secondary lights transition from off-to-on or on-to-off.

 

Regardless of what triggers the evaluation, all conditions must be true at that time in your example, because of your use of "AND" statements. Your status conditions will return true for as the two lights remain off, regardless of whether there has been an immediate change of state. Your control condition will show true, however, only at the moment the motion sensor sends an "on" command. All other times, it will show false.

 

The practical effect in your program is that a change of status will probably not trigger the "then" condition because it would require the unlikely event of a simultaneous reciept of a motion sensor trigger (I suspect this may even be impossible). However the motion sensor could trigger it because the status conditions can remain true for finite periods of time.

 

I am sure this explanation is inadequate. Perhaps you would find it useful to check out some of the other threads on this topic.