Workaround for Signal Issues

[mmknox]

I continue to have signal issues whereby certain devices (not always the same ones) will fail to respond to a timed ON or OFF command.

 

The ISY will show the device in the wrong state (presumably because it sent the command but didn't hear the acknowledgement). If I run a query, it will correct itself (i.e. show it on if its on, off if its off), and I can then send a manual command from the ISY to correct the situation. Commands I initiate from the ISY console ALWAYS work reliably; it's the timed events that are hit and miss for some reason. 99% of the timed events work fine, and it is not always the same device that fails to respond each time. This is baffling because both the timed events and my manual interventions are initiated from the ISY on the same PLM. (I'm chasing down the communications problems separately).

 

What I am wondering is this:

 

Can I have the ISY run a query at a time, say 5 or 10 minutes after a scheduled event, and determine if the devices are in the correct state (on if they're supposed to be and vice versa)? If not, the ISY would send a second on or off command to the problematic device.

 

My programs are very rudimentary (one or two lines) so I wouldn't know where to begin programming something like this... if it's even possible.

 

Right now, I'm more concerned about my porch lights not turning off in the morning and running all day, so I've just added a couple of extra "offs" later in the day to catch them if they are on. Something a bit more elegant would be preferred.

 

Thanks!

[IndyMike]

Hello mmknox,

 

Sorry to hear about the communication problems.

 

I've been using dimmable CFL's in my outdoor lamps for some time. These are rather nasty noise makers, but I put up with them.

 

I run two programs to control the lights in the daytime:

 

Outside Daytime

If
       From    Sunrise +  1 minute
       To      Sunset  - 10 minutes (same day)
   And (
            Status  'Outdoor / Entry Deck' > Off
         Or Status  '1st Floor / Mud KPL 1 - Entry Garage' > Off
         Or Status  'Outdoor / Entry Patio' > Off
         Or Status  'Outdoor / Entry Porch' > Off
       ) 
Then
       Wait  2 minutes 
       Set Scene 'SC Ouside Night' Off 
Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Outside Daytime Poll

 

If
       From    Sunrise +  1 minute
       To      Sunset  - 10 minutes (same day)
   And Time is Last Run Time for 'Outside Daytime Poll' + 30 minutes 
Then
       Set Scene 'SC Outside Sunset' Query 
Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

During daylight hours the "poll" program will trigger every 30 minutes and run the query. If an outside light status "on" is detected, the main program will trigger to turn it off.

 

This could likely been done more eloquently with a folder. As it is, I've been running it for years and it hasn't given me a problem.

[mmknox]

Thanks, IndyMike, that's very helpful.

 

The last controller I spent a lot of time with was an old Enerlogic back in the '90s. It had the concept of states and flags which could be set (a lot like Basic), with the whole program in many lines of script. I will have to take some time figuring out how it's done with folders on this system.

 

I also have a lot of CFLs. Combination of both standard and dimmables, but I'm not convinced that's the source of my problems (yet).

[paulw]

Have you checked to see if any of your devices are v35. I had considerable problems similar to yours until I had them all replaced. Since then, life is good.

[mmknox]

paulw,

 

All of my Insteon gear was purchased within the last month. What am I looking for to determine if I have any v35 devices?

 

Thanks!

[Brian H]

Look in My Lighting.

On the Type Column.

The device part number description and the v.?? at the end is the firmware version number.

[mmknox]

Nope, no v35. SwitchLinc Relays are v.3A, LampLincs and Appliance Adapters are v.38 and SwitchLinc Dimmers are v.38.

[dnl]

You probably have checked this but ...

 

Is the PLM connected to the same phase as the devices that sometimes do not turn off? Do you have access points or filters that bridge the two phases in your house? If the answer to both questions is "no" you may want to get some Insteon access points or phase-bridge filters.

 

Do the problems tend to occur at certain times of day? If so, you might look for devices that run on a schedule or run more often at those times -- they could be outside your house.

[mmknox]

I do have signal bridges and the devices which fail to go on/off seem to vary from day to day (on the same schedule).

 

Today, for instance, I logged into the Administrative Console from work just before a program was scheduled to run. (I turn on two scenes (total of 4 devices) at 1 hour before sunset). I loaded the Event Viewer and watched the programs execute on their own. After it ran, it showed the 4 devices "on". I immediately ran a query and 2 of the devices came back as "off". I manually sent an "on" to the scene with the 2 devices and ran another query and what do you know... they were on! I am unable to determine what could have happened or changed in the time it took me to run a query on 4 devices and manually running an "on" command. Those two scenes had been running flawlessly all week.

 

Later, I came home to find my outside lights were not on, yet they had been working fine. I turned them on from my iPhone's MobiLink app in the driveway, and they turned on just fine.

 

I am baffled. I am going to modify my programs to issue multiple "ons" and "offs" at the scheduled times with a couple of minute "waits" between them and see if that helps.

 

Today was actually worse than what I had been experiencing with my X10 gear that I ripped out, yet for the couple of days prior it was working fine.

[Sub-Routine]

Hello mmknox,

 

First I would suggest one scene with all 4 devices.

 

A Repeat can't hurt.

 

If
       Time is Sunset 

Then
       Repeat 3 times
          Set Scene 'Outside Lights / OL Evening' On
          Wait  20 seconds

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Schedule migrated from previous version.

 

The Wait should be ~2 seconds per device or greater.

 

Rand

[dnl]

You might try Sub-Routine's suggestion and add a Query to the repeat loop. That would allow you to get a better idea how often the problems occur and whether a repeated command by program works or fails.

[mmknox]

Thanks, I'm going to give that at try. It is slightly different from how I was thinking of coding it. I was thinking of Set Scene, wait, set scene, wait..

 

I already do have all 4 outside light devices in once scene. The problem is that some days, one or two of the devices in the scene won't be on or off when they should. The other two scenes for indoor lighting are split up that way because I use one of the scenes only in the morning but both in the evenings.

[Sub-Routine]

If you are calling two scenes you should add a Wait between them. It may be the ISY is sending a new scene command before the first finishes being repeated.

Why not add your morning devices to the evening scene? Or make another scene.

 

Using a Repeat makes the programming a bit easier.

 

Rand

 

Thanks, I'm going to give that at try. It is slightly different from how I was thinking of coding it. I was thinking of Set Scene, wait, set scene, wait..

 

I already do have all 4 outside light devices in once scene. The problem is that some days, one or two of the devices in the scene won't be on or off when they should. The other two scenes for indoor lighting are split up that way because I use one of the scenes only in the morning but both in the evenings.

[mmknox]

Thanks, Rand.

 

The "wait" between scenes is a good tip and I'll give it a try.