Dual-Band PLM, Access Point, Motion Sensor RF proximity?

[Walrus]

I have read through a number of posts, and haven't seen a clear answer on this. Background first: I have ISY, new dual band PLM, two switchlinc relays on the same leg/phase as the PLM, and a motion sensor.

 

The PLM is plugged into a ceiling mounted plug in the basement, so the face of the sensor is pointing down at the floor. Does this affect the RF range, or does it send/receive in a round ball propagating out from the PLM? In the current orientation, almost all RF would go through the back of the unit.

 

Motion sensor - on the main floor, I'm finding it needs to be within 12 feet max of where the PLM is in the basement, in other words, almost directly above it. Otherwise, ISY doesn't receive any motion updates, and the motion LED flashes repeatedly after motion is sensed because it isn't receiving ACK back from the PLM.

 

I want to mount the motion sensor outside, to sense darkness level to turn on my outside lights. This will obviously be out of range of the PLM. If I buy an access point, does the access point need to be in RF range of the PLM (which isn't far) in order for the system to work properly? I don't need it to bridge phases, my two switchlincs are on the same phase as the PLM. I would make sure the AP is plugged into the same phase as well. I'm thinking it will work this way: Motion sensor sends RF dusk signal, AP picks it up and converts it to powerline insteon signal, which the PLM picks up. What happens now? Does the PLM send ACK signal back through both RF and powerline, just powerline (because it got it from powerline), or just RF (because it knows it needs to go to motion sensor)?? If the ACK just goes back through RF, then I would need an AP plugged in within RF range of the PLM, which isn't far. If it sends it through powerline, then the AP will pick it up and repeat it through RF to the motion sensor.

 

I'm just trying to figure what all will be on my next purchase.

 

?

[LeeG]

All the Dual Band devices send/receive messages on both powerline and RF. Does not matter whether the message originates on the powerline or RF, it is repeated on both. A caution on trying to run without the 120V legs (phases) coupled, circuit breakers alternate 120V legs vertically.

 

I am not a radio expert but from what I remember when I was around radios and antennas it is related to whether the antenna is vertical or horizontal. I have had better results with a TriggerLinc when it is mounted vertically which I attribute to the antenna being oriented vertically rather than horizontally. Also flooring is more difficult to get an RF signal through than walls. In addition to the subfloor there is often another wood flooring on top of that. Floor joints are heavier and closer together than wall studs. I would try mounting the PLM vertically using an extension cord. That might improve the reception.

[Walrus]

Thanks, I know about the alternate legs on a panel as you go down the breakers, the two switchlincs are on odd numbered breakers going down the panel, eg 1st and 9th breakers, PLM is on 7th breaker. My small system responds 100%.

 

Maybe it is the floor. It's 18" porcelain tile, which is on top of a mortar bed with wire mesh. I'll try the extension cord to reposition the PLM.

 

Now, if I use an AP to couple the phases, it would need to be in RF range of the PLM.

[dnl]

Hi Walrus,

 

I recently encountered a similar situation. A single AP solved the problem.

 

First of all, RF propagation for the frequencies used by Insteon devices are affected by the thickness and density of the material between transmitter and receiver. With your ceramic tile and the wire mesh, you have a fairly effective RF barrier. I think you are fortunate to receive a signal from even as close as 12 feet.

 

In my case, I had only conventional wood studs, joists, beams, subfloors, drywall, etc. I installed an Insteon motion sensor high on a second floor and the PLM low on a first floor. The two worked generally OK during testing until I placed the MS in a location where an additional beam and edge of a loft floor blocked the signal. With that change, the PLM (as recorded in the ISY log) did not receive anything from the MS.

 

I added an AP that had line-of-sight to the MS, is close to the PLM (directly above the PLM on the second floor) but on the opposite phase. Everything is now rock solid.