Keypadlinc buttons not responding

[jp5150]

Ok, here's a new one for you.

 

I have various lights and 2 keypadlincs that I'm using in a scene as follows:

 

The keypadlincs are an 8-button in the family room and a 6-button in the living room.

 

Scene: Interior On

Living Room Lamp 80% (responder)

Dining Room Lamp 70% (responder)

...

8 Button Family KeypadLinc - Button C (Controller)

(the rest of the 8-button's buttons are set as responders and turned off)

6 Button Livingroom KeypadLinc - Button A Slider set to On (responder)

6 Button Livingroom KeypadLinc - Button B Slider set to Off (responder)

6 Button Livingroom KeypadLinc - Button C Slider set to Off (responder)

6 Button Livingroom KeypadLinc - Button D Slider set to Off (responder)

...

 

 

If I press Button C on the 8-button keypad (the controller), the following should happen:

 

1) Set the lights at the corresponding levels (this works fine)

2) Turn off the rest of the buttons from the Family Room Keypad (the one being used as controller) (this also works fine)

3) On the Living Room's 6-Button keypad, turn on the A button and turn off the rest of the buttons, as is supposedly set up in the scene. (this fails)

 

What is happening is that all of the buttons on the 6-button keypad are turning on.

I can't figure out why ...

[LeeG]

The ISY itself and each Controller can have different responder On/Off/Dim levels. Click on the 8 button KPL button C as Controller listed under the Scene definition and see what each responder is set to for that Controller.

[jp5150]

Lee, thanks for your reply. I have checked and double checked and I am setting the scene attributes under Button C of the 8 button keypad.

In fact, the other buttons of the keypads don't show up under the main scene.

[LeeG]

I have reproduced your symptom. The ISY correctly set the bright level to 00 for the 6 button KPL buttons that have the slider set to 0 which represents Off. However, the KeypadLinc firmware is ignoring the bright level, instead using only the command (On or Off) to determine LED state.

 

Now that I have recreated this I am sure this has been discovered before. A Secondary KPL button cannot be turned Off with an On command. The solution is to define a Scene that contains the KPL buttons as a responder and have a Program turn the Scene Off.

[jp5150]

So, the only way to have 2 or more keypadlincs control a group/scene and have the buttons reflect the status of that scene is through a program?

 

Thanks for your help.

[oberkc]

So, the only way to have 2 or more keypadlincs control a group/scene and have the buttons reflect the status of that scene is through a program?

 

This depends on the devices in the scene, and is not an accurate statement in the global sense. One could, for example, define a button on each of multiple keypads to be controllers in a scene. In such a case, the KPL buttons WOULD accurately reflect the status of the scene. Your particular problem, however, may be in trying to set a zero scene level for responders, or it could be the consequence of trying to control one KPL button with another button from the same KPL. So...this statement could be true in your particular case.

 

I recall similar things as described by LeeG...in some versions (maybe all) of keypads, it may not be possible to set a setting of "off" in response to a scene "on" command. (This is a limitation of some insteon devices.) I also recall that certain versions of KPLs don't allow direct control of one button from another. Perhaps you are experiencing one of these problems.

 

I don't have any spare KPL buttons with which to experiment, but, based on your experience and the experiment of LeeG, it sounds as if you will need to use a program for your particular case.

 

I am unclear as to the purpose of your various keypad buttons, but you may also find a solution in the use of the mutually exclusive feature of the keypad. This feature allows one to define a set of buttons where only one is allowed to be on at any given point, and the rest will turn off when one is activated. Whether this serves your needs depends a great deal on the larger design of your lighting scenes and programs.

[LeeG]

Partially correct. A Scene with multiple KeypadLincs work fine for configurations where mutually exclusive KPL buttons are not being simulated. Normally when a Scene is turned On by a KPL button press other KPLs that have a button cross-linked to that KPL button would be expected to turn On to stay in sync with the KPL where the button was pressed. I don't know the ratio of Scenes controlling Secondary KPL buttons in a simple cross-linking configuration versus simulating mutually exclusive buttons but my guess is most Scenes work as required.

 

The exception is a Secondary KPL button cannot be turned Off when the Scene responder is sent an On command. The Primary load control button can be turned Off with an On command on other KPLs.

 

Smartlabs would have to change the way KPL firmware works regarding Secondary button response. Or enhance KPLs to respect mutually exclusive button definitions (button grouping) when receiving commands from other Insteon devices.

[jp5150]

I don't know the ratio of Scenes controlling Secondary KPL buttons in a simple cross-linking configuration versus simulating mutually exclusive buttons but my guess is most Scenes work as required.

 

I'm not sure what this statement means ...

 

Or enhance KPLs to respect mutually exclusive button definitions (button grouping) when receiving commands from other Insteon devices.

 

This one change would make this whole scenario so much simpler!

[LeeG]

jp5150

 

I'm not sure what this statement means ...

I was trying to respond to the conclusion that “the only way to have 2 or more KeypadLincs control a group/scene and have the buttons reflect the status of that scene is through a program?â€.

 

In fact that conclusion is mostly wrong. Scene On can turn On multiple KPL buttons including Secondary KPL buttons. A Scene Off can turn Off multiple KPL buttons including Secondary KPL buttons. A Scene On can turn Off multiple KPL Primary load control buttons. All KPL button LEDs stay in sync with these Scenes. The single thing that cannot be done is for a Scene On to turn Off a KPL Secondary button. I suspect there are many Scenes (ratio) that perform the required actions using the first three. Only when mutually exclusive button grouping is being simulated in a responder KPL does the Scene not have the capability required.

 

The Smarthome forum has a specific topic “Insteon Product/Module Requests [?]†under the “Insteon†category for users to post product requests. That would be good place to log your request for additional KPL function.

 

Lee

[jp5150]

LeeG,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your willingness to explain things, and your ability to do it so clearly. Cheers!

 

Julio