rgn2000 Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I just hooked up my ISY99ir and PLM 2413S. I am able to get into the ISY via Internet Explorer and under tools it shows that I am connected to the PLM. Now I click on link devices and the status lights on the ISY do not change. Just the power light is on and in the manual it says the RX light should flash. This does not happen. When I first click on link devices I hear a click sound in the ISY, and when I go through the steps and hit finish there is nothing. No Status or anything. What am I doing wrong?
rgn2000 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Posted February 5, 2011 Well I guess I kind of figured it out. I knew that I did not have my access points installed yet and I was only trying to link 1 lamplinc module. I had put it on a different outlet from the PLM, but on the same exact circuit. I assumed I should be able to link. The fact that there was no status going on and no light changes made me feel like it was not even trying to link. Well I used an extension cord and basically I plugged my PLM and the lamplinc in the same exact outlet. When I clicked on link devices and I hit the link button on the lamplinc it immediately linked. I have no idea what the lights did on the ISY, but it linked and I was able to control the light. I am surprised I was not able to link the lamplinc while it was on the same exact circuit. I have some dimmers that act as access points on the way, just not here yet so I was trying to get things going.
Sub-Routine Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Hi rgn2000, Now that you have the LampLinc linked you can test it all over the house. Be sure you have a load plugged into it or a Query will return a NAK (not acknowledged). You can also try relocating the PLM when you discover dead areas. Use an extension cord if you like. This should give you some idea about best placement for the PLM and Access Points. Rand
oberkc Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 I had put it on a different outlet from the PLM, but on the same exact circuit. I assumed I should be able to link. I, too, would have expected this to link without access points, given that you were on the same circuit. The fact that you could not is not a good sign, in my mind. While adding access points may help solve the problem, I believe it is masking the apparent communication problem you are having. I believe you will find it beneficial to identify the source of that communication problem and solve it. What else is on that circuit? Computers? Surge suppressors? UPS? Power supplies? All of the above? At next opportunity, I suggest ordering a couple of filters. It sounds like you might need them.
rgn2000 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 I had put it on a different outlet from the PLM, but on the same exact circuit. I assumed I should be able to link. I, too, would have expected this to link without access points, given that you were on the same circuit. The fact that you could not is not a good sign, in my mind. While adding access points may help solve the problem, I believe it is masking the apparent communication problem you are having. I believe you will find it beneficial to identify the source of that communication problem and solve it. What else is on that circuit? Computers? Surge suppressors? UPS? Power supplies? All of the above? At next opportunity, I suggest ordering a couple of filters. It sounds like you might need them. Well there are some surge protectors in the room. It happens to be the office in the house with a couple or printers and computers. I guess I will have to wait and see what happens when I get the access points going. Thanks for your help.
Brian H Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Surge strips; computers; printers; UPS Units and other assorted electronic devices. Can absorb signals or make power line noise. As mentioned before. Filters on some equipment maybe needed. Access Points may help but filters may still be needed. One thing. Don't put the PLM on a surge strip as many have filters in them that kill a good amount of the power line signals. Also using the same outlet for the PLM that the computer is connected to can cause problems. I have my APC BX1000 UPS on a filterlinc and the PLM in the unfiltered outlet on the front of the filterlinc. That seems to work fine.
rgn2000 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 Again, thank you for your help. I did plug the PLM in an outlet that had a surge protector, but did not plug it in the actual surge protector. I did at one time have access points and a smartlinc (plugged into the same outlet) and was able to link tha same lamplinc from another room. Not to get off subject, but I sent the smartlinc back and decided to grow my system with the ISY. I also sent back the access points as I decided to get the dimmers that are dual band and act like an access point. I will hopefully have those installed by this weekend and will see how it goes. Please stand by as I may need more help, LOL
oberkc Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 hopefully, you ordered a couple of filters, also. I would plug the surge suppressor into one of them. Something caused your original problem, and that surge suppressor would be at the top of my list of suspects.
rgn2000 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Well I received the dual band dimmers and installed them this morning. I do not have the instructions in front of me, but for linking them as access points it said to hit the button 4 times and I believe it would light up (then go to the other one). I tried that on both of them, but there never seemed to be any different lights or anything. Basically what I am saying is that I do not believe it went into Phase Bridge Detection mode. I went to the ISY control to see if I could link those devices to the ISY and they did and they are fully controllable. The only issue is that under type for both of the dimmer devices it says "Unsupported Device: 1.32" What does this mean? I am able to control both of the devices. As to the filters, I have not ordered yet. These dimmers were already ordered and on the way when you mentioned that being a possible issue.
Brian H Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 What version of the ISY99i firmware are you using? The dual bands where added to one of the recent beta updates.
rgn2000 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 2.7.15. I just received the ISY and never updated it. I believe there is a higher version? How come I can still control them? Is it OK to put them in any programs before updating firmware?
LeeG Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Those Dual Band devices did not exist when 2.7.15 was released. You will have to install 2.8.14 and delete and add the Dual Band device for it to be recognized. I would do this first as you will have to delete the device once the firmware has been updated which means all the Programs referring to the Dual Band device will be affected. Most Insteon devices support a basic command set to turn a device On and Off. That is why they respond even though the ISY does not know the actual type of device.
rgn2000 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Thank you for your help. Looks like more work to do. Do you have any insight about what was happening when I was trying to bridge the 2 devices together? Somehow could they be bridged since I have no other access points?
LeeG Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Are these wired or plugged Dual Band Dimmers? If these are plugable dimmers the LEDs must follow the Quick Start or User Guide description. The first dual band device is put into phase detection mode by pressing the Set button 4 times quickly. The second dual band device Set button is not touched. The second dual band device LED should indicate it is receiving the RF signal from the first dual band device and is on the opposite 120 V leg (phase). If the LEDs are not responding correctly then they are not capable of bridging either because they are not within range of each other they are not on opposite 120V legs. I don't have any wired Dual Band dimmers so I cannot confirm what the LEDs will show. Hopefully someone with these devices can post what actually happens with the LED on the second wired dual band device. I cannot tell from the instructions which SwitchLinc LED is suppose to be On when receiving the Phase Bridging signal. The lower LED is On normally when the SwitchLinc is Off so I assume something other than that LED will indicate receiving the RF signal. Bridging is automatic for Dual Band devices. As soon as they are powered they will bridge if within range of each other and on opposite 120V legs (phases). The bridging test is used only to verify they are bridging.
rgn2000 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 These are wired and again thank you. Then they must be bridged.
LeeG Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Do not assume they are bridging. They will attempt to bridge but they have to be within RF range of each other and they have to be on opposite 120V legs. The only way to verify this is to run the bridging test.
Brian H Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Did the tests prove they where bridging? If both where installed on the same phase or the RF signals didn't reach each other. They may not help as well as if they where bridging the phases.
rgn2000 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Posted February 10, 2011 First off, I upgraded the firmware and I no longer have the unsupported device issue anymore. As to bridging I am totally lost. The instructions do not say that they auto-bridge, but in order to go into phasing mode you need to press the set button 4 times quickly and it will start beeping and the LED should be solid. When I press the set button, it makes a beep at each press, but after the 4th press there is no beeping and I am not sure about the LED. Do they mean all the LED's or just one of them? Somehow they must be bridged because I don't think I would be able to link either one. I am also 99% sure they are on opposite phases as I believe my breaker panel should be ABAB... down the left side and I have one of them on A and of course the other on B.
LeeG Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 All Dual Band devices repeat powerline signals on RF and vice versa. No configuration, no setup. Power them up and that is what they do, all automatic. I don't think you are pressing the Set button on the 1st SwitchLinc fast enough. Four quick presses on the Set button. Use a small screw driver or similar so that the button can be pressed quickly. The 1st SwitchLinc should be beeping. If not the 1st SwitchLinc is not in Phase Bridging Detection Mode (according the User Guide). Once that is achieved then something on the second SwitchLinc will be different. Maybe the On LED is on. Maybe the Off LED is brighter. Something will be different about the second SwitchLinc if it is receiving the Phase Bridging test RF message. Otherwise the test would not useful.
LeeG Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 rgn2000 Have you posted the question on the Smarthome forum regarding how to get the SwitchLinc into Phase Detection mode or what the second SwitchLinc LED pattern will look like. Likely there are more folks on that forum that have experience with coupling using only the Dual Band SwitchLinc. The Smarthome support number may also provide the answers. Lee
rgn2000 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Posted February 10, 2011 Well I did a search this morning and I did find someone having the same issue as well. It turns out that I was pressing the button fast enough, but I guess I was releasing it too much. It was making a sound at every press, but it is not supposed to. It takes a few tries, but I got it to work. I believe based on the light pattern that they are indeed linked. What happens when you add a 3rd and 4th. Do they all link together or do just 2 link at a time? There are only 2 phases so no matter where I put a third it cannot be on an opposite phase so I am assuming it would link as well. Or do I have to always go in pairs?
Brian H Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 You are misunderstanding one thing. The LED tests with the button sequence do not link the two dual band device to each other. It tests that you have at least one device on each phase and that they are communicating properly with each other. After you have one working on each phase. You don't have to do any more of the communications tests, but testing any additional ones can be done. If you care to insure it is communicating with another dual band device. No you do not have to add them in pairs. After the first two they just communicate between all of them. Sometimes adding coverage in areas that need better coverage.
LeeG Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 The Dual Band devices are not linked together for phase coupling or message repeating purposes. When a Dual Band device sees an Insteon message of the powerline it repeats it on RF. All other Dual Band devices that receive the RF message will repeat it on the powerline. The Dual Band device(s) on the opposite 120V leg (phase) that receive the RF message provide the phase coupling. The Dual Band device(s) that are on the same 120V leg (phase) repeat the message on the same 120V leg. The effect is to provide the message at full powerline level at other points on the electrical circuits. With more than 2 Dual Band devices the Insteon message is repeated at various points on the wiring. A Dual Band device may have links to other devices to satisfy the other function in the device (SwitchLinc function in a Dual Band Switchlinc for example). These links have nothing to do with and are not required for powerline messages to be repeated on RF and vice versa. Of course they also provide multiple points for sending/receiving RF messages to RF only devices such as Motion Sensors, TriggerLincs, Venstar adaptors, etc.
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