Controlling 'All Lights' From Multiple KPL

[dnl]

I recently added a fourth Keypadlinc to my home. I programmed the ISY to handle its Scene-A button the same as I did for the first three KPL but it did not work the same way. I discovered a fix and learned a few things along the way.

 

I called SmartHome technical support. We quickly decided the problem must be in the way I had setup things in the ISY. The tech said he was not an ISY expert but he thought I had setup things in an unusual way. I am writing to report what I learned and to ask if there is a better, more reliable way to do things.

 

I have two scenes:

• Scene "All Lights" contains all of the controlled lights as responders.
  Scene "All Lights KPL" contains the A button of all KPL.
  • Family Room KPL-(A) All
    Front Door KPL-(A) All
    Garage KPL-(A) All
    Master Bedroom KPL-(A) All

When I first created this second scene, I added all KPL-A buttons as both controllers and responders. More about this later.

 

I have three programs:

 

Program: All Lights Status

If
       Status  'Den Light' is On
    Or Status  'Family Room KPL' is On
    Or Status  'Front Door KPL' is On
    Or Status  'Kitchen Overhead Lights' is On
    Or Status  'Master Bedroom KPL' is On
    Or Status  'Hall Bedroom Light' is On
    Or Status  'Christmas ILR' is On
    Or Status  'Garage Inside Lights' is On
    Or Status  'Garage KPL' is On

Then
       Wait  1 second
       Set Scene 'All Lights KPL' On

Else
       Set Scene 'All Lights KPL' Off
       Set Scene 'Christmas Lights' Off

 

Program: All Lights Turn Off

If
       Control 'Front Door KPL-(A) All' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Master Bedroom KPL-(A) All' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Family Room KPL-(A) All' is switched Off
    Or Control 'Garage KPL-(A) All' is switched Off

Then
       Set Scene 'All Lights' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Program: All Lights Turn On

If
       Control 'Family Room KPL-(A) All' is switched On
    Or Control 'Front Door KPL-(A) All' is switched On
    Or Control 'Master Bedroom KPL-(A) All' is switched On
    Or Control 'Garage KPL-(A) All' is switched On

Then
       Set Scene 'All Lights' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

If any light in the first scene is on, the KPL-A button is lighted on all KPL.

 

If a KPL-A button is pressed when it is dark, all lights in the first scene are turned on.

 

If a KPL-A button is pressed when it is lighted, commands are sent to turn off all lights in the first scene.

 

Everything worked as desired until I added the fourth KPL. Everything was still OK for the first three KPL but the fourth KPL acted differently. Its KPL-A button would turn on/off all lights in the scene except for the load on that KPL. The KPL-A buttons on the other three KPL would control all lights correctly including the load on the fourth KPL.

 

After my call to SmartHome technical support, I removed the KPL-A button from the second scene and added it again as only a responder. At that point, everything worked perfectly. Aha -- the KPL buttons do not need to be controllers! I then removed the KPL-A buttons for all other KPL and added them back as responders only.

 

Now that things are working correctly, I am ready to learn more. Is there a better way to control "all lights"?

[oberkc]

Based on reading of this forum, it seems the response you got from smarthome is a common one. I find it interesting that they claim not to be experts on the ISY, yet are pretty quick to blame it.

 

Given the way you created programs, you are correct. There is no reason to have any of the KPL-A buttons controllers in your second scene. The program takes care of that.

 

However, I suspect you are seeing a slight delay in your device response due to the reliance on programs. I believe you can experience a quicker response by taking better advantage of scenes.

 

I think I would keep your "all lights KPL" scene as is, with the four devices as responder. To your "All Lights" scene, I would add the four KPL-A buttons as controllers. After this, eliminate your second and third programs.

 

Having the KPL-A buttons as controllers in the scene will cause the scene to come on and go off without a program, anytime one of the KPL-A buttons is pressed. It will also keep the KPL buttons synced.

 

Keeping the first program will still toggle the KPL-A buttons to be on anytime one of the other devices is switched on locally. Fortunately, the way I understand insteon to work, this will not cause the entire "all lights" scene to come on. I think you will find this approach to be faster and simpler.

 

I have no definite explanation why adding the fourth KPL did not work (I think it should have), but cannot help but suspect that there are residual links or X-10 addresses in some of your devices. Without knowing more about how it failed, though, this is just speculation.

[dnl]

Thanks oberkc,

 

I added one of the KPL buttons as a controller and it worked as you knew it would. I then added the rest.

 

As I watched the update process, it occurred to me that (among other things) the ISY provides a friendly user interface to build control tables in the Insteon devices. Apparently the ISY keeps track of the tables it builds so that it can interact properly with devices as both responders and controllers.

 

So, the ISY and the Insteon devices are a distributed computing system. By increasing the complexity of the tables in the devices, more processing can be done in the devices, response is quicker and ISY programs are simpler.

 

Why couldn't I see that sooner?

[oberkc]

As I watched the update process, it occurred to me that (among other things) the ISY provides a friendly user interface to build control tables in the Insteon devices. Apparently the ISY keeps track of the tables it builds so that it can interact properly with devices as both responders and controllers.

 

Yes, it does (provide nice interface). Yes, it does (keep track).

 

Why couldn't I see that sooner?

 

It takes time and thought for all of us.

[gatchel]

Just when you think you've got it, you see a post about adding variables...back to the drawing board....(I mean this in a good way of course)

[oberkc]

It sounds like you have the bug. We may have to start an ISY-anonymous.