Insteon 2450 doesn't work like garage door kit instructions

[LeeG]

oberkc is very correct, Scenes do not have status. Insteon has no concept of Scene Status. MobiLinc may be generating something to represent the state of the Scene but it did not come from Insteon.

 

I suggest getting the I/O Linc Sensor and Relay working through the Admin Console first. That eliminates one complete variable. I am sure MobiLinc works, just adds to the questions at this point. A Scene can be used to control the I/O Linc Relay as those results will match what Smarthome has published for the I/O Linc. Smarthome does not describe how the I/O Linc Relay reacts to Insteon Direct commands (which is very different from a Scene) because Insteon devices (except for automation applications using a PLM) cannot issue Insteon Direct commands.

 

Some of the confusion when using MobiLinc stems from the fact that MobiLinc will automatically control a Scene instead of a Device when it sees the Device is in a Scene. That is why I suggest doing all the initial testing using the Admin Console. Once that is working with Direct commands or Scenes (as you chose) then introduce MobiLinc into the mix.

 

geogecko

 

If moving from 3.2.6 to 3.3.4 or 3.3.5, 3.2.6 had a bug associated with the Set Options function and the new I2CS I/O Linc. 3.3.4 and 3.3.5 have the fix so there will be differences in what Set Options shows once on 3.3.4/3.3.5.

[MrTinker]

If moving from 3.2.6 to 3.3.4 or 3.3.5, 3.2.6 had a bug associated with the Set Options function and the new I2CS I/O Linc. 3.3.4 and 3.3.5 have the fix so there will be differences in what Set Options shows once on 3.3.4/3.3.5.

Forgive my stupidity, what is a I2CS I/O Linc and how do you know if you have one?

[LeeG]

Starting in March 2012 SmartLabs started manufacturing and Smarthome started shipping devices that contain the newest evolution of the Insteon protocol, I2CS. The I2CS firmware was rolled out incrementally across the various Insteon device types such that now almost every device has the I2CS firmware.

 

A positive test for I2CS is run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with LEVEL 3. Right click on the device node , select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine. Trace entries similar to the following are produced

 

Mon 12/03/2012 03:33:23 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 29 E8 0F 0D 00

Mon 12/03/2012 03:33:23 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.29.E8 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Mon 12/03/2012 03:33:23 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.29.E8 19.70.06 AB 0D FF (FF)

 

A FF or 02 indicates an I2CS device. The I/O Linc was one of the first devices to be shipped with I2CS firmware.

[oberkc]

Mrtinker,

 

As a result of this thread, I checked my mobilinc scenes and devices and reach the following conclusions:

 

A. Mobilinc does not display a status for scenes.

B. one can see status of individual devices, including iolinc relays.

C. One can control iolinc relays, either via device or scene

 

I hope this helps

[geogecko]

LeeG,

 

Thanks for the assistance here. The changes from those versions of firmware is what I was talking about. I noticed that no matter what I did in 3.2.6, I could not get anything to behave differently. I also noticed that the nomenclature of some of the options changed.

 

Currently, I have the I/O Linc connected to the green/black wires (for the sensor). When the magnet is close to the sensor, the sensor is "on," which with the way it will be installed in the garage, will indicate that the door is "closed." The I/O Linc relay normally open contact will be used to operate the garage door opener.

 

When the door was open (magnet away from sensor), I set the following options:

 

With Sensor "on" (door closed)

Relay direct commands operate as follows (via admin console):

On - Relay momentarily clicks (closes circuit), shows status "on" (door will be open now)

On - Relay momentarily clicks again, shows status "on" (door will be closed now)

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

(behaves the same if I go back to On commands, etc.)

 

With Sensor "off" (door open)

Relay direct commands operate as follows (via admin console):

On - Relay momentarily clicks (closes circuit), shows status "on" (door will be closed now)

On - Relay momentarily clicks again, shows status "on" (door will be open now)

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

(behaves the same if I go back to On commands, etc.)

 

So in other words, the relay operates the same, no matter what the sensor state is. Ideally, and I don't know if this is possible, but this is the desired operation:

 

With Sensor "on" (door closed)

Relay direct commands operate as follows (via admin console):

On - Relay momentarily clicks (closes circuit), shows status "on" (door will be open now)

On - Relay does nothing, shows status "on"

Off - Relay momentarily clicks (closes circuit), shows status "off" (door will be closed now)

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

 

With Sensor "off" (door open)

Relay direct commands operate as follows (via admin console):

On - Relay momentarily clicks (closes circuit), shows status "on"

On - Relay momentarily clicks again, shows status "on"

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

Off - Relay does nothing, shows status "off"

(behaves the same if I go back to On commands, etc.)

 

I think I have the logic right, but anyone feel free to correct me. I am guessing that if this is not possible operation to setup via direct commands, that a little program running in the background could provide this type of operation, I just wanted to be sure that the functionality didn't exist, before I start writing code.

[LeeG]

geogecko

 

A Direct On command to the Relay always turns the Relay On. Sensor On, Sensor Off, independent of which Relay mode, Latching, Momentary A,B,C, it makes no difference, a Direct On always turns the Relay On. In any of the Momentary modes the I/O Linc automatically turns the Relay Off. The Relay is a Responder Only device which does NOT report the Relay state change to Off so the ISY shows the Relay as On (reflecting the last command issued) even though the Relay is Off most of the time. Except for changing the Relay Status displayed by the Admin Console (because it is the last command issued) the Direct Off command usually has no affect on the Relay because Momentary mode has already turned the Relay Off.

 

The various On/Off command actions described in the I/O Linc Quick Start and User Guide are discussing what happens when the Relay is controlled with a Scene. Insteon devices always control other Insteon devices with a Scene so the I/O Linc doc does not mention what happens with Direct commands as devices cannot issue Direct device control commands. Of course HA applications can issue Direct commands through a PLM but that is the only way Direct device control commands are issued.

 

Release 3.2.6 handles pre I2CS I/O Linc options correctly. I2CS I/O Lincs require a different command sequence to set the options which was implemented in 3.3.4 and later.

[geogecko]

Ok, so I guess I should just think of it like "on" always toggles the garage door. So I guess if I wanted the relay state to really be reflected, even though it doesn't really matter, I could write a program that looks for the relay being turned on, and 1-2 seconds later, I can turn it off, so that it matches it's real state. Then I just monitor the sensor to determine if the door is open/closed.

[geogecko]

Or could I just wait 2 seconds, and query the relay? Wouldn't that reset it to off?

 

Edit: Just tried this...actually has to be status, not control, I keep forgetting that direct control by the ISY does not trigger a control command in a program.

[LeeG]

Either approach, Query or sending an Off command will change the Relay Status. Relay being On or Off does not say anything about whether door is open or closed if using Direct commands. Turning the Relay On moves the door. Could be moving it open, could be moving it closed. The I/O Linc Sensor state indicates door open/close status.

[geogecko]

Understood. Mentally, I just find it weird turning on, an already on relay. Also, it works a little different in Mobilinc. If I use the icon to toggle the state, if I don't reset it to off, I first have to cycle it to off, then back on, in order to activate the relay. If I reset the relay, every press of the Mobilinc icon for the relay, will cause action on the part of the garage door opener.

 

Thanks for your help in understanding this operation.

[MrTinker]

My fun in getting to play with all this is now looking like it will have to wait until after the turn of the year. My Smarthome order with the two garage door sensors is being held up by an EZFlora which is on backorder (estimated in stock on 12/21). Oh well

[geogecko]

That stinks. I just finished installing mine last night, and so far, am loving it. I like the way I have it setup, and I just have one little maintenance program that goes out and checks to see when the relay is on, and then waits 2 seconds, and queries the relay so that it has the proper status.

 

My only complaint, is that by using this, the relay shorts out power to the LCD wall control for the garage door opener, which resets the clock on it. I am trying to remember if there is a backup battery (CR2032 maybe) inside the wall control that might be dead. Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to quit using it for a clock in the garage. My unit is a Chamberlain Liftmaster with the battery backup.

[Brian H]

The shorting out the LCD display has been reported before. It gets its power through the same two wires used to control it.

You can rewire the I/OLinc and solder it to the internal push button inside the display that opens and closes it.

Others have purchased a extra remote and soldered the I/OLInc relay output to the button inside the remote.

[MrTinker]

This just keeps getting more fun. One of my openers also has the remote with a clock (also a Chamberlain Lift Master with battery backup). I guess I have some more planning to do. Thanks for the posts, it's better to know about such things in advance. Looks like I'll be running an additional pair of wires from the openers to each of the remotes. I was actually planning on swapping the garage door openers/remotes (to move the newer and more featured one to the door we use most often) so perhaps I'll solder short wires with quick disconnects on each of the remotes so I can easily swap them.

[geogecko]

Lol, while this is in the garage, the wiring added to add the sensor looks ugly. I'm not going to run another wire to the wired remote on top of the drywall.

 

I guess if it bothers me enough, I can take one of the wireless openers, and make some modifications, however, at some point the battery will die, and then I will lose control over the door until its replaced...unless I make a little circuit to drop the 5V output of the IOlinc down to 3V (hopefully that's what they use inside), and hard wire power to the remote... Lol. I probably have an old LM317 that I could use to do that...

 

I did the same thing you are planning on doing. I moved the original opener to the single car door, and bought this new fancy one to use on the main door. Overall, I've been happy with it, but after about 3 years, the wireless operation has been intermittent. Sometimes we will have to be right up next to the door to get it to open or close, and it doesn't matter which car (Homelink), or remote we use. I think maybe the capacitors in the GDO are going bad...or something else...