KeypadLinc controlling IoLinc works backwards

[dsegneri]

I am using a button on a KeypadLinc (2486D v5.1) to control the relay on an IoLinc (2450 v1.5). When I create a scene through the ISY-99 (v2.18.16), the relay turns off when the button is on, and visa-versa. If I delete the scene, and link the devices manually, they work properly. I have tried every possible status when setting up the linc in the ISY, such as setting the relay on with the switch off, the relay on with the switch on, etc.

I initially just wired the contacts backwards to accommodate for it, but every time the power fails, the 2450 comes back up with the relay off, which turns the lights on. What am I missing?

[LeeG]

Is the Relay in Latching mode or Momentary mode? If Momentary mode which mode?

 

From the I/O Linc User Guide …

 

“An ON command can be programmed to either open or close the relay; an OFF command will do opposite. For example, if the relay is programmed to open in response to an ON command, an OFF command will close the relay.â€

 

I did not think this mattered when establishing an ISY Scene.

[dsegneri]

Lee, thanks for taking time to reply. I am using latching mode. When you link the units manually, you put the IOLinc in the mode you want it to respond to an ON command. This doesn't seem to have any effect if you're programming it through the ISY using a scene control. It would seem to be a glitch in the way ISY programs that particular device (2450). I have even tried Querying each device before I add them to the scene so that the ISY would be aware of their current state.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[oberkc]

If you are programming through the ISY, have you tried changing these settings. If I recall correctly, you can select the device (IOLinc) at the device tree, and along the bottom is an button where you can view and edit the options. This includes the option for response to "on" commands, latching, momentary, etc....

 

I don't think the status of the IOLinc device, at the time of adding to the ISY, matters at all.

[LeeG]

oberkc

 

I do not think the I/O Linc Set Options has an option that controls how the I/O Linc Relay responds to On/Off commands.

 

dsegneri

 

Under Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table, display the I/O LInc link database. The last three bytes of the link records for the Relay (link records start with an A2 for the Relay) determine how the Relay will respond.

 

A 00 00 00 in the last three bytes has the Relay turn Off with an On command and On with an Off command.

 

A FF 00 00 in the last three bytes has the Relay turn On with an On command.

 

I did not think the ISY would write anything but a FF 00 00 link record. You can get other results if you play with the On Level and Ramp Rate values for the Scene but these should not be changed for an I/O Linc.

 

Lee

[oberkc]

do not think the I/O Linc Set Options has an option that controls how the I/O Linc Relay responds to On/Off commands.

 

I looked at the wiki:

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Linking_an_I/O_Linc

 

and you are correct. It only has the option to set momentary "A", based upon the condition the IOLinc was in when it was "linked". Unfortunately, I believe dsegneri has tried linking while on AND off, without any visible change in behavior. This is contrary to what I would expect from the wiki.

 

Perhaps I am not understanding the issue here...

 

When I create a scene through the ISY-99 (v2.18.16), the relay turns off when the button is on, and visa-versa.

 

I understand that the IOLinc relay cannot be a controller in a scene, only the sensor. This suggests that the "button" must be the controller in this scene.

 

I initially just wired the contacts backwards to accommodate for it, but every time the power fails, the 2450 comes back up with the relay off, which turns the lights on.

 

This is suggesting that the relay is, somehow, driving the switch (which I think is not possible...only sensors can be controllers). Maybe there IS a sensor in this equation somehow (perhaps in reference to wiring the contacts backwards). If there IS a sensor, and it is the sensor that is the controller of the scene, then I am thinking that the "trigger reverse" option in the IOLinc configuration could be the solution.

 

I also remember something in the wiki garage door kit example about problems during power failure:

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Garage_Door_Kit

 

I believe the proposed example was to wire the sensor differently than shown in the directions. But then, I think this wiki article was based on a version of the ISY software that is pretty old by today's standards, and may not apply. Regardless, perhaps there is something here that can help dsegneri.

[LeeG]

“I understand that the IOLinc relay cannot be a controller in a scene, only the sensor.â€

 

This is correct. The KeypadLinc button is the Controller, the I/O Linc Relay is the Responder. When the KPL button is pressed On the Relay turns Off. This is opposite to what the user wants and is opposite to what an ISY Scene normally does.

 

“then I am thinking that the "trigger reverse" option in the IOLinc configuration could be the solution.â€

 

The Trigger Reverse option reverses the On/Off commands issued by the input Sensor. Normally when the Sensor turns On the I/O Linc sends an On command. With Trigger Reverse set an Off command is sent when the input Sensor turns On.

 

Either there is a situation where the ISY Scene create is setting LD1 (On Level) to a 00 value when the I/O Linc is a Relay or the OP has changed the On Level for the Responder when the KPL is the Controller. All ISY Scenes I have created where the I/O Linc Relay is a Responder the On Level (LD1) is set to FF. This will cause the Relay to turn On when an On command is received (what the user wants).

[LeeG]

dsegneri

 

Below the ISY Scene name, select the KeypadLinc button (should be red entry) and look at the On Level displayed for the I/O Linc Relay. This should be 100% for a Scene On to turn the Relay On. If it is 100% then we need to know what the Show Device Links Table shows for the A2 entry in the I/O Linc. It should be FF 00 00 if the On Level is showing 100%.

 

Lee

[dsegneri]

Lee,

Thank you, for your research on this. I posted a detailed reply to you earlier with the results of the diagnostics and the link table, but it seems to be lost somewhere. You are correct, it is the brightness level that will change the relay response to turn on from an ON command. If you leave the on level set to the default (0) the link value is 00 00 00 in the last three positions. If you set the on level to 100%, the value is FF 00 00. In reviewing one of the links to the WIKI, they mention it, but it could stand some clarification. It would also be useful to put it in the troubleshooting section, because I would guess that the problem is not uncommon.

[LeeG]

This is a change in the way the ISY is defining a Scene where the I/O Linc Relay is a Responder. Scenes which I defined during the middle 2.8.x images were defined with 100% On Level FF 00 00. A Scene I created under 3.1.2 was defined with 0% On Level 00 00 00. It was 0% regardless of the On/Off state of the Relay under the Admin Console. Not sure which image changed this. I would have thought the 100% On Level as a default would have been better. Most are expecting the On command to turn On the Relay. At least it is now understood it changed the next time the question comes up.

 

Thanks for posting back your answer.

 

I thought I lost a post also (not this topic) and another user made a similar comment. I added a post to the New Forum topic documenting the possibility of a problem in this area.

[dsegneri]

Lee,

I think I have heard of several problems regarding the default on level being set to 0%. I agree that the obvious default condition should be switch ON=relay ON. It would be much more logical to provide an optional setting for the IOLinc to reverse the relay function, instead of having to remember the ON level. It's like the relay contact labelling on the IOLinc. In every other context I deal in, the NC terminal is connected to the common terminal on a relay when it is NOT POWERED! That is considered its NORMAL CONDITION. For some reason, Smarthome considers it to be the opposite.

I'm sure we'll run in to each other in a future post. I really appreciate the detailed knowledge, and responsiveness.

 

Thanks.....