matapan Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Can Mobilinc maintain current state info of IOLinc's relay? I use an IOLinc connected to my garage opener and a magnetic contact sensor for opening and closing the garage door. The door is opened by a momentary contact closure. While contact closure state is correctly update in the Admin Console through the IOLinc's relay state, it is not updated in Mobilinc. Only closure state is shown in Mobilinc Pro. The updated relay state showing the relay being open does not show up until an explcit refresh of the relay is requested. I am using ISY99 PRO with firmware version 3.1.10.
InsteonNut Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Yes, MobiLinc can show you this. Please verify the statement about the Admin console showing the updated state and not MobiLinc. Both the Admin Console and MobiLinc get the state information the same way from the ISY. If the Admin Console reports the change in state, then MobiLinc should also reflect the state change as well. One thing I had to do in my test setup for this case was to create a small ISY program that would query the IOLinc controller after being activated due to the IOLinc changing the control element state internally without notifying anyone on the INSTEON network. With the ISY automatically performing the query a few seconds after activating the contact relay, this forces the ISY and thus all connected clients to always have the latest and correct status of the IO Linc controller. Wes
LeeG Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 matapan I am running 3.1.10. The Admin Console does NOT show the I/O Linc Relay being turned Off by the I/O Linc momentary modes timing out. The I/O Linc Relay does not function as a Controller so it cannot notify any device the Relay has turned Off. As was mentioned the I/O Linc can be Queried which will return the current state of the Sensor and the Relay. This is similar to an ApplianceLinc or OutletLinc. These have no Controller function on the Output side and cannot notify any device if they are turned Off locally. Lee
matapan Posted October 27, 2011 Author Posted October 27, 2011 Here's what I did to verify my assertion: I opened the Admin UI and selected the My Lighting entry under the Main tab. The IOLinc relay state is OFF and the sensor state is ON. To me, this has always indicated to me that the garage door is closed and the momentary contact to the opener from IOLinc is open. I launched Mobilinc on my iPhone and looked at the Devices list. The IOLinc relay state is ON, and the sensor state is ON. The door is closed, but the IOLinc relay state reported was not updated when the garage door was closed in Mobilinc. IOLinc relay mode is set for momentary contact I believe; the relay toggles itself off after one toggles it on. If I manually query the IOLinc relay entry in Mobilinc, the correct relay state of OFF is reported. If there's anything else beyond this to report, please provide the repro steps. Thanks.
LeeG Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 matapan When you have those conditions in the Admin Console (Sensor On, Relay Off) open the garage door remotely through the Admin Console or whatever means the garage door is operated remotely by turning the I/O Linc Relay On. The Relay state will change to On and stay On even after the Relay turns itself Off with the Momentary Mode timeout. The Relay status is initially found Off because the ISY does a Query at 3:00 AM of the My Lighting tree. Unless a Program does a Query as part of the garage application the Relay will not show Off again until 3:00 AM Query even though the garage door is opened and closed remotely using the I/O Linc Relay. The reality is the I/O Linc Relay status in a garage door application is for all practical purposes useless. The Relay is turned On for a few seconds each time the door is commanded to move (Open or Closed). The Momentary Mode timeout turns the Relay Off but because the Relay side of the I/O Linc has no Controller function the I/O Linc cannot notify any responder (like the ISY) that the Relay state is changed. The effect is for the Relay status to show On no matter whether the garage door is Open or Close. The Relay status will continue to show On until the 3:00 AM Query of My Lighting unless the a garage door control Program does a Query along the way. Even if the garage door application Program does a Query the Relay status will show Off unless the Relay is Queried in the few seconds before the Momentary Mode timeout turns it Off. The Relay will show Off while the door is moving Open, it will show Off while the door is moving Closed, it will show Off while the door is Open and while the door is Closed (assuming Query is done). The Relay status in the Admin Console will show On once the door is moved and will continue to show On for the entire day (until 3:00 AM) or if a Query is done it may show Off which means nothing regarding the open/close status of the garage door. The I/O Linc Sensor is the only meaningful indicator of door status. Lee
LeeG Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 matapan My apologies. After my last post I think I realized the complaint. The Admin Console shows one state for the I/O Linc Relay and the MobiLinc application shows a different state. Since the MobiLinc application was likely not running at 3:00 AM when the My Lighting tree is queried and changed the I/O Linc relay status the MobiLinc would have to obtain the current status of the I/O Linc Relay just as the Admin Console does when it starts up. That is a MobiLinc question. As described above the I/O Linc Relay status is meaningless in garage application but I would expect the MobiLinc to show the same status as the Admin Console, Lee
matapan Posted October 27, 2011 Author Posted October 27, 2011 Ah, I see. Thank you LeeG for the explanation. I'll experiment and modify my garage door application accordingly. If devices like IOLinc and Morninglinc (coupled with the appropriate corresponding enhancements to the lock to return status info) and the thermostat interface would this change cover what would be necessary to ISY to more accurately track state information for these devices?
LeeG Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 matapan It would depend on how SmartLabs implemented the additional capability for each device. The ISY updates status for the devices that report back so it might be no changes would be required to the ISY at all. On the other side if a new Group (Scene) number was introduced for the I/O Linc to report status of the Relay it would require changes to the ISY. No way to predict the impact of such hardware changes until they were spec'ed by SmartLabs. It is hard to see SmartLabs going through the effort to redesign the I/O Linc Relay side to report status. Except for the few seconds a day the Relay is energized to simulate a manual button press it would be reporting an Off status. I use a 2 second timeout so even if the door was moved 10 times a day the Relay would be Off all but 20 seconds in a 24 hour period. Whatever happens the ISY will follow. The v2 Venstar adaptors report more information than V1 did. Three additional nodes are now defined to support the v2 adaptors additional information. Lee
matapan Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 Actually, I did some additional testing tonight. Using the Admin Console v. 3.0.9, the UI returns correct IOLinc relay state info after the relay is triggered from an ISY program that does not explicitly call for a refresh of the relay state. Mobilinc does not return the correct relay state. Once the relay is triggered on momentarily, the relay state is reported as being on. The 3am query of all devices has nothing to do with the difference in how the Admin UI is correctly tracking IOLinc's relay state and how Mobilinc isn't doing this in this scenario.
LeeG Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 What did the ISY Program issue to the I/O Linc Relay? Set scene On or Set scene Off and what is the I/O Linc Relay Responder On Level (0% or 100%) when the Scene name in the My Lighting tree is selected?
LeeG Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 In addition to the questions in the previous post was the I/O Linc Sensor On or Off when the Set scene command was issued by the Program?
matapan Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 The relay was called upon directly in a program: Set 'Garage - Relay' On in the Then section of the program. The relay is set to use Momentary B.
LeeG Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Thanks. The Program issues a Direct Relay On and the Admin Console shows the Relay as Off?
matapan Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 Yes, because the IOLinc setting is for a momentary contact. Toggle the relay on, and it will automatically toggle itself off.
LeeG Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 This is correct as far as the actual Relay but the I/O Linc does not report that activity back to the ISY. Something is issuing an Off command or Query command from the Program or perhaps the MobiLinc app is doing a Query. Neither the ISY nor the Admin Console issue an unsolicited Query. There is a piece of this puzzle that has not been identified yet.
InsteonNut Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Hi LeeG and matapan, Matapan, I ran the scenario you described where the ISY issues the ON command to the relay in a program. The Admin console and MobiLinc shows the relay going to ON and staying ON even though the relay is in momentary mode and itself turns itself off. I can command the door through MobiLinc and the admin console to open an close, but the relay always shows ON until I query it through the Admin console or MobiLinc. In the ISY I had to write a program that listens for the relay being turned ON and queries the relay 3 seconds later to get the OFF status reported to MobiLinc and the admin console. I agree with LeeG, there is something in your setup that we don't understand yet. Wes
KHLUDI Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Hi LeeG and matapan, Matapan, I ran the scenario you described where the ISY issues the ON command to the relay in a program. The Admin console and MobiLinc shows the relay going to ON and staying ON even though the relay is in momentary mode and itself turns itself off. I can command the door through MobiLinc and the admin console to open an close, but the relay always shows ON until I query it through the Admin console or MobiLinc. In the ISY I had to write a program that listens for the relay being turned ON and queries the relay 3 seconds later to get the OFF status reported to MobiLinc and the admin console. I agree with LeeG, there is something in your setup that we don't understand yet. Wes Wes, Can you post the code for the program you created to queries the ON/OFF for the I/OLinc Relay and Sensor? Thanks, KL
InsteonNut Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Hi KL, Since this post I've changed how my personal setup operates. I've got a KPL button in the house that I use to tell if the garage is open or closed. If open the light is ON if closed the light is OFF. If I tap the button, the garage door opens or closes. This is done with one program and one scene. The scene is called "Garage Door" and contains the KPL button and IOLinc controller. The KPL Button is the controller of the scene. the IOLinc Controller is set to Momentary C mode. The program definition is: If Status Sensor is ON Then Set Scene Garage Door OFF Else Set Scene Garage Door ON In MobiLinc you can then use the Garage Door scene as the garage door controller. Status of the scene reflect the door status. Tapping the scene will open or close the garage door. Wes
KHLUDI Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Hi KL, Since this post I've changed how my personal setup operates. I've got a KPL button in the house that I use to tell if the garage is open or closed. If open the light is ON if closed the light is OFF. If I tap the button, the garage door opens or closes. This is done with one program and one scene. The scene is called "Garage Door" and contains the KPL button and IOLinc controller. The KPL Button is the controller of the scene. the IOLinc Controller is set to Momentary C mode. The program definition is: If Status Sensor is ON Then Set Scene Garage Door OFF Else Set Scene Garage Door ON In MobiLinc you can then use the Garage Door scene as the garage door controller. Status of the scene reflect the door status. Tapping the scene will open or close the garage door. Wes Wes, "The scene is called "Garage Door" and contains the KPL button and IOLinc controller." KPL button is the controller for that scene. what about the IOLINC? Is it a controller or a responder? And you said IOLinc Controller, do you mean the Relay or the Sensor? Thanks, KL
LeeG Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 "what about the IOLINC? Is it a controller or a responder?" The I/O Linc Sensor can ONLY be a Controller The I/O Linc Relay can ONLY be a Responder Think of what each does. The I/O Linc Sensor reflects the state of the magnetic switch. What would it mean if the Sensor could be turned On or Off as a Responder of a Scene. How would that reflect the state of the magnetic switch. The I/O Linc Relay responds to commands. Much like an ApplianceLinc that manages 120v AC, the I/O Linc Relay manages a low voltage circuit like a garage door opener. The ISY will only allow the I/O Linc Sensor to be assigned as a Controller of a Scene and the I/O Linc Relay assigned as a Responder of a Scene.
dwbourn Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I have a similar situation if I read through the thread correctly but I don't rely on the relay status to tell me if the door is open or closed. I rely on the door sensor. In fact I have a program that waits 3 seconds and turns the relay status to off as it is a momentary switch and I want that reflected in the status. This is similar to the garage door program you listed but without a scene. You could then trigger a light on the 6 or 8 button keypad to give you a status or something based on the sensor status. This method works well on mobilinc. My reason for doing this is if you open the door via homelink or other method not going through the relay then your status could be goofy. Caveat: I may have missed the point as I am not an advanced user by any stretch of the imagination. --David
KHLUDI Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 "what about the IOLINC? Is it a controller or a responder?" The I/O Linc Sensor can ONLY be a Controller The I/O Linc Relay can ONLY be a Responder Think of what each does. The I/O Linc Sensor reflects the state of the magnetic switch. What would it mean if the Sensor could be turned On or Off as a Responder of a Scene. How would that reflect the state of the magnetic switch. The I/O Linc Relay responds to commands. Much like an ApplianceLinc that manages 120v AC, the I/O Linc Relay manages a low voltage circuit like a garage door opener. The ISY will only allow the I/O Linc Sensor to be assigned as a Controller of a Scene and the I/O Linc Relay assigned as a Responder of a Scene. A question about Status Conditions. Can I write a program like this and when will this program execute? If Status "Door Sensor" is ON(CLOSED) Then Set "Kitchen Light" ON Else Set "Living Room Light" ON So when does this program run? When I press any SwitchLinc, KeypadLinc or what will trigger this program? Let say my current Status is Door Sensor is ON(CLOSED) Kitchen Light is OFF Living Room Light is OFF If I go and open the Door. The IF statement for the Door Sensor will be OFF(OPEN). The IF condition will be FALSE. Then that mean the THEN statement will NOT execute. Then will the ELSE statement "Living Room Light ON" execute?
LeeG Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Whenever the Status of the 'Door Sensor' changes (from Off to On or On to Off) the Program is triggered (runs). When the Program is triggered (runs) the If is evaluated. When the If is True (Status is On) the Then clause executes. When the If is False (Status is Off) the Else clause executes.
KHLUDI Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Whenever the Status of the 'Door Sensor' changes (from Off to On or On to Off) the Program is triggered (runs). When the Program is triggered (runs) the If is evaluated. When the If is True (Status is On) the Then clause executes. When the If is False (Status is Off) the Else clause executes. When I open/close the Garage Door, is the Sensor supposed to update to OFF/ON automatically on ISY Admin Console? Sometimes I have to do a Query of the Garage Door Relay or Sensor in order for the Sensor Status to come up correctly.
LeeG Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with LEVEL 3. Cycle the garage door open/closed 3-4 times and post the event log. It sounds like there is unreliable comm between the I/O Linc location and the PLM.
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