Setup Problems

[autom8tme]

Hi,

 

I am new to this and just started to set up and Insteon system controlled by the ISY99ir.

 

Here is my set up:

 

ISY99IR Pro - n/p

2442 AP - n/p

2413 PLM n/p

74551 Garage Door Kit - n/p

2476D Bathroom Dimmer - n/p

2476D Living Room Dimmer- n/p

 

So here are the 'problem switches':

 

Kitchen 2494m3 Dimmer Kit (2 PCs pre-config for 3-way)) - After the electrician installed them he linked them up manually, not via the ISY (I didn't know better at the time). I phoned the supplier who told me to unlink everything and to strictly configure it via the ISY. So I did, but I only have full control on the primary switch. I was able to add the secondary in the ISY software but I couldn't control it - neither local or via ISY/ISY scene creation. I deleted it form the ISY and did a manual unlink (again, to be sure) and a factory reset. Now I cannot control it locally and ISY cannot find it anymore either.

Also, I am wondering - this was bought as a 'kit', pre-linked by the factory I guess.... is that maybe an issue?

 

2876B Exterior switch (single) - can control local but cannot add to ISY

2876B Secondary bathroom switch (single) - can control local but cannot add to ISY

 

2486DWH (with a 2477D in a three-way config) - Again, the electrician did a manual link to another 3 way dimmer which I deleted. I was able to set up a scene with the 8 button and the secondary three-way dimmer and both seem to work. However, I cannot create a new scene that works (i.e. add the kitchen and the living room)

I tried programming different buttons i.e. B, C, etc. but all have the same result.

 

So.... I am wondering how to troubleshoot this whole thing. I am thinking about wiping/resetting everything and starting fresh as I spend already a vast amount of time on this - its getting frustrating. I did read the manuals of the switches but it didn't help.

 

My questions are:

 

• for sure[/b] delete all the old/bad links, locally and within the ISY?

 

Your help and advise would be appreciated. Thank you!

[apostolakisl]

Take the cover plate off of the switches so you can read the address off the switches. Enter the addresses of each switch into ISY manually giving it an appropriate name. Create folders if appropriate to help you stay organized as you get more switches. When it asks you if you want to clear all links say yes.

 

Then use ISY to create new scenes. Right click on the switches you want in each of the scenes and add them (or drag and drop). For a virtual three way you want all the switches set as controllers.

 

You can then set your on level and ramp rates for the switches when acted on directly (by clicking on the lone switch in the tree) and when responding to the scene (by clicking on the scene in the tree).

[LeeG]

autom8tme

 

Along with the good information and suggestions from apostolakisl, here are a few more items …..

 

1. Be sure the Access Point and the Dual Band PLM pass the 4 Set button tap test confirming they are on opposite 120V phases and can hear each other’s RF signals. This is absolutely essential before working any other symptom.

 

2. Be sure the ISY PLM is not plugged into a surge suppression power strip and there are no UPS/PC equipment plugged into the same circuit. The UPS and PC equipment should be connected to a FilterLinc to insure they are not interfering with the Insteon signals to and from the ISY PLM.

The PLM can be temporarily connected to an extension cord and powered from a separate circuit until a FilterLinc is available.

 

3. Concentrate on one problem at a time. Provide detail. A symptom of "cannot create a Scene" is not helpful. Cannot define a new Scene, cannot add a Controller to the Scene, cannot add a Responder to the Scene, all appeared to work in creating the Scene but it is not functional, device to device control works but only in one direction, device to device control works in both directions but the devices cannot be controlled from the ISY Admin Console. Just a sample of information that is useful in understanding the failure and possible solution. As you gain experience with the technology better problem descriptions will evolve. I can think of a half dozen reasons a Scene cannot be created or not working and many are simply not being familiar with the technology.

 

4. Success with Insteon has much less to do with intelligence and much more to do with knowing the technology. Each solution will add to the knowledge base.

 

5. The 2494m3 Dimmer Kit is two SwitchLincs that come prelinked. The prelinking is somewhat useless with the ISY as all linking (Scene creation) should be done with the ISY. The prelinking does not prevent them from being used successfully with the ISY.

 

6. Devices should be added to the ISY with the â€Remove existing links†option. All device linking and cross-linking is done with ISY Scenes.

 

Lee

[autom8tme]

Thanks everyone. It's great to know that someone is helping!

 

I will proceed with the checks first and then get into detailed descriptions of what problems remain. Will post them within a day or two.

 

Regards,

 

D.

[LeeG]

autom8tme

 

Please do. Once the basic Insteon environment is established and stable you will find all kinds of interesting things can be done with the ISY. The users on this forum along with the great support from UDI personnel can help with just about any question that comes up.

 

Lee

[autom8tme]

Hi Lee,

 

it took me a while longer than I thought but I finally got to work on the system again. I am currently doing a renovation so it is not my only focus.

 

Anyhow, the good news is that I got some problems solved:

 

The Bathroom Switch and Exterior Switch were added successfully (both are 2876SB's) and I have full control locally and remotely after - As per your TS list - I decided to relocate the ISY and the PLM (they were on the same circuit as my server and a bunch of other equipment).

I ran the 4 tap test after and the AP responded with a blinking light (it did before but so did one of the switches).

 

One a side note, I have an LG washer and dryer which have a remote sensor - it also works via some sort of PLM coming from the washer. Can it cause interference? Should I still get the filter Linc to prevent Noise in the line?

 

I am still having trouble with a secondary dimmer switch as I described before. However, before I ask for advice on this on problem I will run some basic tests on it first.

 

Thanks and I will try a few more things and report back any problems.

 

Dirk

[autom8tme]

Hello again,

 

unfortunately it one step forward and two steps back.I spent another $150 to stabilize the system by adding a hardwired phase coupler and a filter. It's getting frustrating because I don't seem to get this right for one reason or another.

 

Here is my set of problems with it:

 

1. I have a 8 button controller and another dimmer wired in a three way configuration. In order to make the main button on the 8 button work I had to create a scene for the two. I thought they would work interdependently without having to do this?

 

2. I have two dimmers in a three way configuration in the kitchen. One of them I cannot get to work for the life of it (but it did work before when i manually linked it to the other dimmer. I reset it, added it again, tried to make it a controller or I responder, etc, etc. - to no success. When I operate the paddle locally the LED's race up and down in response but the lights are not responding.

 

3. I created a downstairs scene. I added button B as a controller with the following responders: the Foyer dimmer (this is the secondary dimmer to the 8 button keypad), the kitchen dimmer and the living room dimmer. Symptoms:

 

a. when the button is pressed the lights come on at different dim levels. when I reset them in the scene by using the 'apply to all devices' it doesn't retain the setting. I have to go through all the scenes and reset it everywhere including the switches themselves.

b. when the scene starts and I try to dim it via the B button on the keypad the Foyer won't dim.

c. When pressed the main button for the Foyer is not responding properly. As a matter of fact I turned it on, the dim level was wrong (full on) and I was not able to turn it off again.

 

Should I reset the whole thing and start 'fresh'? Did I mess up in the base set up? Why is it so unstable?

[LeeG]

When devices are operating in a multi-way (3-way, 4-way, etc) configuration all the devices must be added to an ISY Scene as a Controller. ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder. Adding a device as a Responder does not allow it to control other devices.

 

Also note that Insteon devices in a multi-way configuration do not use the traveler wire. The wiring must be adjusted so each Insteon device receives un-switched 120V AC.

 

Item 1

ISY Scene A (Scene name your choice)

KeypadLInc A (load control in 8 button mode) as Controller

Another Dimmer as Controller

 

Item 2

ISY Scene B (Scene name your choice)

Dimmer 1 as Controller

Dimmer 2 as Controller

 

Item 3

ISY Scene C (Scene name your choice)

KeypadLinc Secondary Button B as Controller

Kitchen Dimmer as Controller

Living Room Dimmer as Controller

 

All the Controllers in a given Scene are cross-linked automaticlly by the ISY. This allows all Controllers to control all other Controller devices and all status LEDs stay in sync.

 

Once the correct links are established then any remaining communications issues can be addressed.

 

For now turn Off any remote notification by the LG appliances. Don't know if that is powerline communication or RF communication. Do not want either possibility for now.

[oberkc]

1. I have a 8 button controller and another dimmer wired in a three way configuration. In order to make the main button on the 8 button work I had to create a scene for the two. I thought they would work interdependently without having to do this?

 

There is no special wiring required for a three way configuration. Insteon devices are wired no differently in a three-way than for any other way. Yes, you need to create a scene to behave as a three-way. The ISY-99 scene would include both devices, both as controllers. It sounds as if yours system is working normally in this case.

 

when the button is pressed the lights come on at different dim levels. when I reset them in the scene by using the 'apply to all devices' it doesn't retain the setting.

I have never gotten this option 'apply to all devices' to work. When I want the settings of an individual controller to match that of the scene, I choose the controller and choose a button "copy from scene".

 

when the scene starts and I try to dim it via the B button on the keypad the Foyer won't dim.

 

The foyer dimmer is a secondary button, therefore, it controls no load. To what insteon device is your "Foyer" light wired?

 

When pressed the main button for the Foyer is not responding properly. As a matter of fact I turned it on, the dim level was wrong (full on) and I was not able to turn it off again.

 

In your scene, I see only "button B", "the Foyer dimmer (this is the secondary dimmer to the 8 button keypad)", "kitchen dimmer" and the "living room dimmer". I am confused. I see no "main button for the Foyer" in your scene. What is this button, how did it respond, and how did you expect it to respond.

 

Should I reset the whole thing and start 'fresh'? Did I mess up in the base set up? Why is it so unstable?

 

No, not yet. I am not convinced anything is messed up. I more suspect a bit of confusion about the understanding of controllers versus responders, and about which devices control which loads. Hopefully, we can get this worked out.

[ergodic]

Let me suggest a step-by-step approach that might help get you past the initial difficulties, and also will help us separate your setup problems from possible communication issues:

 

1) Start over. Delete all devices and scenes from the ISY.

 

As already recommended: now add your devices only by linking them in the ISY. Do not manually link anything (ever). Select "Clear all links" on the linking menu when you add the device so it won't matter what state the device was in previously.

 

Now if you cannot link a device via the ISY link dialog you know have a basic communication problem to be solved before proceeding on. Don't waste any effort trying to add other devices or create scenes yet until it's figured out. Communication problem usually affect the entire system or a good chunk of it, and you'll just get deeper in the hole if you try to slide past it. Lots of good comm. troubleshooting posts are on this forum. If you can't figure out what it is, post back those details.

 

2) Now create a scene for that device's paddle or primary load button. Make it a "controller" (which also makes it a "responder") in that scene. Call it something like "Multiway: devicename". So for now the scene will just have that device in it.

 

Again, if the ISY cannot create the scene successfully you are dealing with a communication problem we need to figure out before moving on.

 

Do a right-click... Diagnostics... "Show Device Link Table". When all the device's links are displayed (this can take a minute or two), click "Compare" to make sure the link table in the device matches with the ISY/PLM. This is actually a pretty tough test of ISY-to-device communication.

 

3) Now run the "Scene Test" from the ISY Tools menu a few times - preferably at a few different times of the day. Make sure it reliably shows "successful". Once again, if it doesn't, we have to look at communication.

 

4) If you're here, you have working 1-device scenes. After you've added all the devices and their scenes you should be able to add the buttons on the other devices you may want as other controllers for a scene. When you do that, you will have full control of the load from any of the buttons/paddles. And activating the scene in the ISY should set the state of all the scene's devices.

 

Now run the ISY scene test again to check communication with all the different controllers in the scene. Also check the operation at the individual buttons to make sure the devices are communicating successfully directly with each other.

 

If you don't want to keep one of these scene after you're done successfully checking the device's setup, you can of course delete it. I don't. I create a scene for each device when I add it to the ISY, even if it is just itself.

 

As a little encouragement, I can tell you I did a whole-house ground-up remodel about 3 years ago with the ISY. Every single switch in our house is now Insteon, run through the ISY. You will get it working nicely if you're able to get past this initial 'frustration' stage.

 

And regrettably, I will say it is also possible if you find communication issues it may turn out you have to spend a few more $ on filterlincs or access points to resolve it. The nature of the beast I'm afraid. If you want to feel a little better about that, price a Crestron or Control4 system.