matapan Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 I have a scene that doesn't work as I expect. Can anyone offer any suggestions? The scene consists of a 6 button Keypadlinc carrying a load, an Appliancelinc, and a Lamplinc, called devices A, B, and C respectively. The above 3 devices are responders in a scene: A, B, C Three of the buttons on the Keypadlinc are controllers in the scene: Button1, Button2, Button3 I defined the local control of the scene as follows: Control Button: Button1 Light Level: A - 85%, B - 100%, C - 85% Control Button: Button2 Light Level: A - 5%, B - 100%, C - 0% Control Button: Button3 Light Level: A - 5%, B - 0%, C - 100% I've left the ramp level out for simplification. The load carrying device does not keep its setting for the local scene setting. In each case, A is set, but reverts to 100% if you select a different row, then select the same row again. Is there a reason why I cannot save the local scene setting for the Keypadlinc load device? All the other devices defined in the local scene have their settings preserved. I don't see any external references to the Keypadlinc load device, except in another scene where the device is a responder. I tried restoring the Keypadlinc device to no avail. As a standalone device, the device keeps its light level and ramp rate settings just fine. Is this a bug?
LeeG Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 matapan There is some use of terms that is causing a little confusion on my part. Local Scene Settings - not sure what this means. Button 1,2,3 - these are secondary buttons on the KeypadLinc? An ISY Scene actually consists of multiple Insteon Scenes so it is best to take this to the Insteon Scene level. Each Insteon Scene has 1 Controller which I think is one of the Secondary KeypadLinc buttons (A,B,C,D) . Button1 is Secondary KeypadLinc Button A,B,C,D ?(which one for a single example) is a Controller. KeypadLinc ON button is a Responder ApplianceLinc is a Responder LampLinc is a Responder When Button 1 is selected each Responder has a unique Responder On Level and Ramp Rate which is associated with Button 1 being pressed. Do not know what Local Scene Settings term means in relation to the this. When Secondary Button 1 is pressed ON the defined Responder On Levels go into effect. When a different Secondary Button2 is pressed ON the defined Responder On Levels for that button go into effect. If Secondary button 1 is pressed again it generates an OFF which should turn its Responders OFF. When Secondary Button 1 is pressed ON again, what happens? It would be helpful to use the actual KeypadLinc Secondary button nomenclature A,B,C,D and explain what is meant by Local Scene Settings. Is there any Button Grouping involved? Lee
matapan Posted December 10, 2011 Author Posted December 10, 2011 LeeG: Buttons A, B, C, D- these are the secondary buttons on the Keypadlinc. Local Scene Settings - these are the individual Insteon scenes settings for the individual controllers in the ISY scene. The overall scene has ramp rates and light levels defining it. Each individual controller in the scene can have a different setting. Not sure what the official term for this is. All of the responders retain their On level and ramp rate except the Keypadlinc load, which is also a responder. You can set it, but it always goes back to 100%, instantaneous ramp rate. No button grouping is involved. So, buttons A, B, and C on the Keypadlinc are controllers in an ISY scene in which the Keypadlinc dimmer, Lamplinc, and Appliancelinc are responders. The local Insteon scene for each Keypadlinc button is defined as follows: A: Keypadlinc load: 85% ON level, 2 second ramp rate, Appliancelinc: 100% ON level, 0 second ramp rate, Lamplinc: 85% ON level, 2 second ramp rate B: Keypadlinc load: 5% ON level, 2 second ramp rate, Appliancelinc: 100% ON level, 0 second ramp rate, Lamplinc: 0% ON level, 2 second ramp rate C: Keypadlinc load: 5% ON level, 2 second ramp rate, Appliancelinc: 0% ON level, 0 second ramp rate, Lamplinc: 85% ON level, 2 second ramp rate The problem is that when the Keypadlinc load is set for B or C, it looks like the ON level and ramp rate are set, but if you navigate away from the device, then return to it, the Keypadlinc load is reverts to a 100% ON level, instantaneous ramp rate setting. All the other devices save their ON level and Ramp Rate settings. Why can't I save the ON level for the Keypadlinc load in a scene?
LeeG Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Okay, thanks, I think I've got the picture. When the Red Button A entry below the Scene name is selected and the KPL load button ON is set to 85% Then the Red Button B entry below the Scene name is selected and the KPL load button ON is set to 5% Then the Red Button C entry below the Scene name is selected and the KPL load button ON is set to 5% Then select some other entry in the My Lighting tree Then select the Red Button A below the Scene name and the KPL load button ON is no longer set to 85% Is that accurate? What ISY firmware level is being used? I set that Scene up and Button A, Button B and Button B Controller entries maintain the set On level for KPL load control button on 3.1.13. When the On Level slider is moved to some level does a Progress Bar appear and green arrow Icons appear to the left of the KPL nodes?
matapan Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 I am using the latest ISY firmware version 3.1.13. The Keypadlinc version is 1.3. Firmware version is 29 Simply put, the local Insteon scenes for the Keypadlinc load are not being preserved. Selecting another of the local Insteon scenes, then selecting the one whose light level for the load had been modified results in the light level for the load reverting back to 100%. The updates appear to be written to the device successfully each time the updates are applied.
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 In the image below Scene Controller “KeypadLinc White 6 Button – A†has been selected, the list of Responders to Button A is displayed, “KeypadLinc White 6 Button†is the load control button on the KeypadLinc set to 85%. It is this line that shows 85% that reverts back to 100% if Button B is selected and then Button A is clicked again?
oberkc Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 I have some devices which don't keep certain settings until you cycle power. I think it could be related to being older versions. Have you tried making the changes, then temporarily pulling power from the affected devices?
matapan Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 LeeG: Exactly. The load, Keypadlinc 6 Button is defined with an 85% light level for the Insteon scene associated with button A. Change the focus from button A to button B (or anything, for that matter) after the writes to button A scene have completed. The scene will retain the settings for button all other devices in the scene except the Keypadlinc load, in your example 'Keypadlinc 6 Button'. OberKC: I tried air gapping the Keypadlinc to power cycle it. This didn't allow the Keypadlinc Load definition in a scene to be retained.
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks for the confirmation. That is very strange. Lets see if the ISY is actually changing the associated KPL memory. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Level: Device communications events selected. Change the On Level to something, 80% just to have a different value and post the event trace.
matapan Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 LeeG: Here is the Event Viewer trace for the following actions: 1. Select Keypadlinc Secondary button (e.g. Button in scene. 2. Adjust the load defined in the Insteon scene to 75% 3. ISY momentarily displays update status dialog. 4. When update status dialog disappears, select another button in scene (e.g. Button A), then select button B. Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 07.8D.64 0F 11 BF 06 LTONRR (BF) Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.8D.64 13.22.2E 2B 11 BF LTONRR (BF) Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][07.8D.64-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [ 7 8D 64 1] ST 191 Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 07.8D.64 0F 24 00 06 (00) Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.8D.64 13.22.2E 2B 24 00 (00) Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][07.8D.64-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 09:45:30 AM : [7 8D 64 1 ] Memory : EPROM Refreshed
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 The new value was not written to the KeypadLinc. See the Red events in my trace which are absent in yours. Does Help | About show Firmware and UI both at 3.1.13? Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.B9.0D 0F 11 BA 06 LTONRR (BA) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.B9.0D 19.70.15 2B 11 BA LTONRR (BA) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.B9.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [ 12 B9 D 1] ST 186 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [All ] Writing 2 bytes to devices Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [12 B9 D 1 ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x02A9 [bA] cmd1=0x00 cmd2=0x00 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [12 B9 D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'KeypadLinc White 6 Button' Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.B9.0D 0F 28 02 06 SET-MSB(02) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.B9.0D 19.70.15 2B 28 02 SET-MSB(02) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.B9.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.B9.0D 0F 2B A9 06 PEEK (A9) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.B9.0D 19.70.15 2B 2B 35 PEEK (35) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.B9.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.B9.0D 0F 29 BA 06 POKE (BA) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.B9.0D 19.70.15 2B 29 BA POKE (BA) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.B9.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:04 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.B9.0D 0F 24 00 06 (00) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:05 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.B9.0D 19.70.15 2B 24 00 (00) Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:05 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.B9.0D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 12/11/2011 01:05:05 PM : [12 B9 D 1 ] Memory : EPROM Refreshed
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 My 6 button KPL is at v36. Might be a difference in KPL firmware capability.
matapan Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 LeeG: I have ISY99 firmware version 3.1.13 and console version 3.1.13.
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 Do you have a later level KeypadLinc that can be used as a test? With the same ISY and UI code the only difference I can see is the KPL is at a lower firmware level than my v36.
matapan Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 LeeG: Unfortunately, I don't. The closest thing I have is a dual band Switchlinc relay, which is not a suitable device for this test.
Brian H Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 From the users reported information on this web site. http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Inst ... e_list.htm Your KeypadLinc Dimmer is the first hardware and firmware version sold. It is very possible it doesn't support the features in the newer models. The list indicates v1.5 and above with firmware .2D.
LeeG Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 Brian Great pickup. Did not think to look at his web site. It specifically notes firmware 2D and above is needed for a Secondary button to control the On Level and Ramp Rate of the local load. Thanks Lee
matapan Posted December 12, 2011 Author Posted December 12, 2011 LeeG and BrianH: Thank you for your informative and extremely helpful posts. I could not figure out on my own why the local load could not be controlled from a secondary button. The Insteon device firmware spreadsheet is very useful for those who have any kind of Insteon product less than new!
Brian H Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Glad it helped. Let us know if you have any other questions on older modules. Like the older ApplianceLinc and LampLinc modules tied the Local Control Sensing to an X10 address or the older SwitchLinc and Icon Relay models don't have an Air Gap Switch. Resulting in a different Factory Reset procedure. The older manuals for them seem to have been misplaced on the Smarthome site.
Recommended Posts