watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi, I've installed an IOLinc garage relay. The sensor is correct and glows when the door is open. The ISY and IOLinc are set to Momentary "C" as per the options in the ISY web interface. I have created a scene for the garage door it is to control. However whether it is in the scene or not only the "on" command opens and closes the door. This is driving me a little bonkers. ISY and Mobilinc will show the correct status of the door either on for open or off for closed but the "off" switch never closes the door only hitting 'on" again will work. What am I missing here? All help is appreciated. Thanks, Bob Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 When using Insteon Direct commands only the On command turns the Relay On, regardless of the Momentary mode selected. In Momentary C mode the Relay should react to either a Scene On command or Scene Off command depending on whether the door sensor is On or Off. The I/O Linc Relay must be a Responder to the Scene. Which command operates in which Sensor state (On or Off) depends on the Responder On Level of the I/O Linc Relay. Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Maybe I'm obtuse but whether you're in the scene or out, the relay only responds to the "On" command and ignores the "off" command. On operates the relay and opens and closes the door. The sensor is working correctly and shows "off" with the door closed and "on" with the door open. How do we geet it to respond to the "off" command? Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Stop using Direct commands. Only the Direct ON command turns the Relay On. The Smarthome documentation does not discuss Direct commands because none of the Insteon devices can issue Direct commands on their own. Check the Momentary mode. It sounds like it is in Momentary A mode. In this mode the Relay only responds to one command, either On or Off, but not both. Control the Scene where the I/O Linc Relay is a Responder. What is the Responder On Level for the I/O Linc Relay. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 the relay only responds to the "On" command and ignores the "off" command. How are you sending this "on" command? From the ISY-99 admin panel? From the ISY, via mobilinc? Are you choosing the relay, itelf, when you send the command, or the scene? If you are selecting the IOLinc relay, itelf, you are sending "direct" commands. Maybe I'm obtuse but whether you're in the scene or out, It is not the mere presence of a scene that matters, but whether the IOLinc is responding to a scene command from one of the controllers in a scene. I have created a scene for the garage door it is to control. Is there a controller defined in this scene, or is it an ISY scene with one device (the IOLinc) as a responder? Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Let me try again. Don’t think I did a good job in the last post. Insteon Direct commands On and Off work the same way across all four Relay modes, Latching, Momentary A,B,C. The Direct On command turns the Relay On, the Direct Off command turns the Relay Off. The Direct Off command is not normally used in Momentary mode as the timeout will automatically turn the Relay Off. However, for longer timeout values and Latching mode, Direct Off will turn the Relay Off. None of this behavior is described in the Smarthome doc because no Insteon device can send Direct On/Off commands. It requires some form of home automation. The action of On/Off commands as described in the Smarthome doc is related to Scene commands only. This is because Insteon devices only send Scene commands related to On/Off. When a paddle/button/toggle is pressed a Scene command is what is sent (not a Direct command). Whether using the ISY Admin Console or MobilLinc the Scene with the I/O Linc Relay is the only mechanism that can be used for the Relay to turn On with both an On and Off command. Also the I/O Linc Relay must be in the correct Momentary mode. EDIT: thank oberkc. I don't think I have been able to relate that Scenes are the only means of the Relay being turned On with an Off command. Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Let me restate the environment: IOLinc with sensor, ISY 99iR Pro, Mobilinc. The IOLinc is in "C" momentary mode as per the ISY Web interface data. Whether in the scene or out of it the IOLinc only responds to the "on" command the "Off" command does nothing. It is my understanding that the "off" command should trigger the relay to shut the door. Only hitting the "On" will shut the door. The sensor is working correctly and shows the correct status fo the door. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Which command opens the door and which command closes the door depends on various factors. Does the Scene Off command open the door? Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I asked this before but have not seen the answer. What is the Responder On Level for the I/O Linc Relay. Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 The responder level is at 100%. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you. Now does the Scene Off command open the door? Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It is my understanding that the "off" command should trigger the relay to shut the door. Only hitting the "On" will shut the door. Let me restate the questions: How are you sending the "on" and "off" commands? From the ISY-99 admin panel? From the ISY, via mobilinc? Are you choosing the relay, itself, when you send the command, or the scene which includes the relay? Is there a controller in the scene that includes the relay? Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 It is my understanding that the "off" command should trigger the relay to shut the door. Only hitting the "On" will shut the door. Let me restate the questions: How are you sending the "on" and "off" commands? From the ISY-99 admin panel? From the ISY, via mobilinc? Are you choosing the relay, itself, when you send the command, or the scene which includes the relay? Is there a controller in the scene that includes the relay? I've sent the commands from both Mobilinc and from the ISY. Both in the scene and directly to the device from either. Only the "On" command opens and closes the door. The IOLinc ignores the "Off" command. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If all is as you describe the I/O Linc is defective. In Momentary C mode the Scene Off (NOT RELAY OFF) should either open the door or close the door depending on other factors. If Scene Off does not move the door in one direction or the other and the Green Sensor LED on the I/O Linc is turning On/Off as the door changes positions the I/O Linc is not working correctly. One more thing. Is the "Relay follows Sensor" option set? If so turn that option Off. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Did you change the Responder On Level to 100%? The ISY is setting the On Level to 0% when the I/O Linc Relay is a Responder of a Scene. What ISY firmware level is being used? Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Did you change the Responder On Level to 100%? The ISY is setting the On Level to 0% when the I/O Linc Relay is a Responder of a Scene. What ISY firmware level is being used? Hi The responder level is set to 100% the ISY firmware is the latest beta 3.1.16. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If all is as you describe the I/O Linc is defective. In Momentary C mode the Scene Off (NOT RELAY OFF) should either open the door or close the door depending on other factors. If Scene Off does not move the door in one direction or the other and the Green Sensor LED on the I/O Linc is turning On/Off as the door changes positions the I/O Linc is not working correctly. That is the way I see it, also, based on my experience with two IOLinc/garage kits. You could experiment around with other modes, to see if the IOLinc responds at all. Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 If all is as you describe the I/O Linc is defective. In Momentary C mode the Scene Off (NOT RELAY OFF) should either open the door or close the door depending on other factors. If Scene Off does not move the door in one direction or the other and the Green Sensor LED on the I/O Linc is turning On/Off as the door changes positions the I/O Linc is not working correctly. One more thing. Is the "Relay follows Sensor" option set? If so turn that option Off. No the "relay follows sensor" is not checked. Only "LED on Tx" is checked with Momentary "c" The story is more complicated because it seems that the scene will not control the IOLinc either from the ISY web app or from the mobilinc. Both show what the staus should be based on the command either on or off but nothing happens. I think that this is this a problem with the IOLinc. Other scenes that I have work just fine. I've spent as much time on this as I spent intalling Switches for half of my house. Very frustrating! Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Final update: I removed all references to the IOLinc and sensor. Reset the IOLinc to factory defaults. Rebooted ISY. Reloaded browser and logged on. Started from scratch to relink. All is working as it should. Thanks to all who helped here. The best solution was to reset and go back to scratch. I did this before but this time it worked! Link to comment
Teken Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If all is as you describe the I/O Linc is defective. In Momentary C mode the Scene Off (NOT RELAY OFF) should either open the door or close the door depending on other factors. If Scene Off does not move the door in one direction or the other and the Green Sensor LED on the I/O Linc is turning On/Off as the door changes positions the I/O Linc is not working correctly. One more thing. Is the "Relay follows Sensor" option set? If so turn that option Off. No the "relay follows sensor" is not checked. Only "LED on Tx" is checked with Momentary "c" The story is more complicated because it seems that the scene will not control the IOLinc either from the ISY web app or from the mobilinc. Both show what the staus should be based on the command either on or off but nothing happens. I think that this is this a problem with the IOLinc. Other scenes that I have work just fine. I've spent as much time on this as I spent intalling Switches for half of my house. Very frustrating! Hello Watchdog507, Please confirm visually the following items for me. 1. The red & black wires from the sensor are wired to the I/O Linc. The black wire is placed on the GROUND, while the Red wire is placed on the SENSE. 2. You have connected the other two leads directly to the GDO. Connecting one wire to the N/O (Normally Open) while the other wire is inserted into the COM (Common). 3. Set the I/O Linc to Momentary C mode via the ISY. If in doubt at this point I would urge you to do a factory reset of the I/O Linc. It already doesn't operate as you wish so no loss here. 4. Once the I/O Linc has been factory reset. Please use the ISY to change the relay to Momentary C mode. 5. Press the I/O Lincs Set button. The door should raise and lower as though you're using the remote control, or hard wired switch for the GDO. If it does not stop . . . If it does, and the LED on the I/O Linc displays a green LED upon open & off when closed please continue. 6. Create 2 scenes in the ISY: Name of Scene: Garage Door Relay Status Make this a Responder: I/O Linc Garage Door - Relay Make this a controller: KPL what ever button Name of Scene: Garage Door Sensor Status Make this a Controller: I/O Linc Garage Door - Sensor Make this a Responder: KPL what ever button 7. This portion is the most important part . . . Please ensure the door is OPEN. The I/O Linc's LED should reflect the open status. If not stop, until it does! DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR VIA THE I/O LINK SET BUTTON!!! Open the door via the GDO . . . Once this step is done, and you have followed the drag and drop of those two scenes I have indicated the door should open and close with pushing only 1 button. Which will reflect the open / close state via the KPL LEDS . . . Ensure that the KPL button is left in *Toggle* On/Off I have installed this device several times and this has been the most solid method I have been able to control the door, all the while having only one KPL button do all the work. It never falters and is 100% accurate. The biggest problem I encountered was using the I/O Lincs Set button to do the initial programming and also opening the door! You only do this part in the very first step to confirm that the door can in fact be controlled and open / closed via the set button. Pressing the idiot button at any other time will make you scream and pull every strand of hair out of your head! Don't ask me how I know . . . Teken . . . Link to comment
watchdog507 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 If all is as you describe the I/O Linc is defective. In Momentary C mode the Scene Off (NOT RELAY OFF) should either open the door or close the door depending on other factors. If Scene Off does not move the door in one direction or the other and the Green Sensor LED on the I/O Linc is turning On/Off as the door changes positions the I/O Linc is not working correctly. One more thing. Is the "Relay follows Sensor" option set? If so turn that option Off. No the "relay follows sensor" is not checked. Only "LED on Tx" is checked with Momentary "c" The story is more complicated because it seems that the scene will not control the IOLinc either from the ISY web app or from the mobilinc. Both show what the staus should be based on the command either on or off but nothing happens. I think that this is this a problem with the IOLinc. Other scenes that I have work just fine. I've spent as much time on this as I spent intalling Switches for half of my house. Very frustrating! Hello Watchdog507, Please confirm visually the following items for me. 1. The red & black wires from the sensor are wired to the I/O Linc. The black wire is placed on the GROUND, while the Red wire is placed on the SENSE. 2. You have connected the other two leads directly to the GDO. Connecting one wire to the N/O (Normally Open) while the other wire is inserted into the COM (Common). 3. Set the I/O Linc to Momentary C mode via the ISY. If in doubt at this point I would urge you to do a factory reset of the I/O Linc. It already doesn't operate as you wish so no loss here. 4. Once the I/O Linc has been factory reset. Please use the ISY to change the relay to Momentary C mode. 5. Press the I/O Lincs Set button. The door should raise and lower as though you're using the remote control, or hard wired switch for the GDO. If it does not stop . . . If it does, and the LED on the I/O Linc displays a green LED upon open & off when closed please continue. 6. Create 2 scenes in the ISY: Name of Scene: Garage Door Relay Status Make this a Responder: I/O Linc Garage Door - Relay Make this a controller: KPL what ever button Name of Scene: Garage Door Sensor Status Make this a Controller: I/O Linc Garage Door - Sensor Make this a Responder: KPL what ever button 7. This portion is the most important part . . . Please ensure the door is OPEN. The I/O Linc's LED should reflect the open status. If not stop, until it does! DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR VIA THE I/O LINK SET BUTTON!!! Open the door via the GDO . . . Once this step is done, and you have followed the drag and drop of those two scenes I have indicated the door should open and close with pushing only 1 button. Which will reflect the open / close state via the KPL LEDS . . . Ensure that the KPL button is left in *Toggle* On/Off I have installed this device several times and this has been the most solid method I have been able to control the door, all the while having only one KPL button do all the work. It never falters and is 100% accurate. The biggest problem I encountered was using the I/O Lincs Set button to do the initial programming and also opening the door! You only do this part in the very first step to confirm that the door can in fact be controlled and open / closed via the set button. Pressing the idiot button at any other time will make you scream and pull every strand of hair out of your head! Don't ask me how I know . . . Teken . . . Thanks for the detailed response Teken. You and everyone else have been glowing examples of people helping those of us who come here for assistance. Your points are well taken and I'll be using your methodology to install another IOLnc for the other side of the garage next week. I'm sure that the next install will go smoothly thanks to all of the assistance I've now received. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Please ensure you confirm and validate that all GDO safety's operate as intended. Please check to see that the safety beam sensor does in fact operate and retract the door once the beam has been breached. Some users have experienced this odd behavior. Also note, you should confirm that all hand held remotes and hard wire switches do in fact operate independently of the Insteon / ISY set up. If all of the above operate than the next step is to sit there and watch the KPL LED. Validate that this KPL LED does in fact reflect the open / close state regardless of the method of opening / closing of the GDO. This is the largest door in your home, it is also the most important area that needs 100% security and confirmation that it is indeed wired and programmed correctly. The last step is to ensure you unplug the PLM, or ISY in what ever order and power up the device(s) in random stages. You will do this with the door open, and also in the closed state. This will confirm and validate a power line loss, or break in ISY communication or check to see if any programs may conflict with any portion of the operation of the garage door. I performed this same step over 46 times to ensure a high level of safety, and confidence in the final install. Please do so on your end, and then enjoy the true meaning of control! Teken . . . Link to comment
kevkmartin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 One additional thing I did for security, was to put the outlet powering the GDO on a switchlinc relay. When I "lock down" for the night or vacation, the garage door opener is actually powered OFF once the garage door is verified closed. Even if someone broke into a car and got to the open button, they aren't getting in. It's easy with the ISY / mobilinc to programmatically turn on the GDO power as needed and /or on a schedule. I also have programs set up that send me a text message confirming every time the door opens or closes. If I drive away and am not sure of the status, I can check the text log to see at a glance. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 One additional thing I did for security, was to put the outlet powering the GDO on a switchlinc relay. When I "lock down" for the night or vacation, the garage door opener is actually powered OFF once the garage door is verified closed. Even if someone broke into a car and got to the open button, they aren't getting in. It's easy with the ISY / mobilinc to programmatically turn on the GDO power as needed and /or on a schedule. I also have programs set up that send me a text message confirming every time the door opens or closes. If I drive away and am not sure of the status, I can check the text log to see at a glance. Would you mind explaining how your closed program works along with a sample. As I have struggled with making one where I am confident with the end results. Teken . . . Link to comment
stillen_i30 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 On the note of garage doors, I have my KPL set up as recommended. However, I've noticed that when I press the KPL button to open the door, the light turns on (as it normally should). If I hit the KPL button again when the door is only half-open, the light turns off and the door stops in its current position (half-open). I hit the same KPL button again, and the light turns back on but the door doesn't do anything. I hit the button a 3rd time and the light shuts off and the door begins to close. Is there any way around this so that the KPL button behaves like the factory button and while the door is paused in half-open position, the KPL light still remains "ON" to confirm the status of the open door? Link to comment
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