KPL 6 conversion to KPL 8

[jpoje]

I just converted a keypadlinc 6 to a keypadlinc 8. I followed the instructions that came with the KPL conversion kit, then followed instructions on wiki for deleting and relinking the device in the ISY.

 

I have just programmed each new button a-g with 8 scenes. I have two issues if anyone has any suggestions:

 

1) When button F on the keypadlinc is pressed it is not controlling the scene and it is causing the ISY component to make a buzzing noise for about 10 seconds. I tried removing the button F from that scene and added it to another scene, but ended up with the same results.

 

2) I had one button assigned on KPL6 to control relay/sensor scenes for garage door. Each time button was pressed, door either opened or closed (light on button would adjust on or off depending on whether the door ended up open or closed). On the new KPL8, the button I assigned to this task is now requiring me to press it twice (instead of once) to either open or close the door. This is not a big deal, but what would cause the KPL6 button to work differently than the KPL8 button for this particular task?

 

Any suggestions on correcting issue #1 above regarding button F would be most appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[oberkc]

Each time button was pressed, door either opened or closed (light on button would adjust on or off depending on whether the door ended up open or closed). On the new KPL8, the button I assigned to this task is now requiring me to press it twice (instead of once) to either open or close the door.

 

Is it possible that the KPL was originally configured to be in a non-toggle mode? What mode (latching, momentary A/B/C) is your IOLinc set?

 

ISY component

 

What is an ISY component?

[jpoje]

The ISY component that I referred to is the actual blue ISY99i device box.

 

I did a factory reset on the KPL before converting it from a 6 to an 8, so I think that should have wiped out any previous programming as far as the toggle modes are concerned.

 

I actually have two separate garage doors, both doors and openers identically the same, each controlled with it's own separate i/o linc, two separate identical door relays, both installed and wired exactly the same, both set up with the exact same scenes, both set to momentary C, both set to toggle on/off, BUT one was controlled with a KPL 8 and the other with a KPL 6 (until today when I converted the KPL 6 to a KPL 8 ).

 

It always drove me nuts as I could never figure out why the KPL 6 allowed me to "push the button one time" to trigger the door to open/close as compared to the KPL 8 that required me to "push the button twice" to trigger the door open/close. BUT, now that I've converted the KPL 6 to an 8, it works like my other KPL 8 having to "push the button twice"???

 

So I guess my questions is, with everything set up exactly the same, why would a KPL 6 control the i/o linc differently than the KPL 8?

[LeeG]

It should not make any difference between a 6 or 8 button KPL. When the KPL button has to be pressed twice can I assume that the KPL button LED is turning On and Off with each press but the I/O Linc Relay is only reacting to either an ON press or an OFF press but not both?

 

It should not make any difference between a 6 or 8 button KPL. When the KPL button has to be pressed twice can I assume that the KPL button LED is turning On and Off with each press but the I/O Linc Relay is only reacting to either an ON press or an OFF press but not both?

 

Suggest running Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications selected. From identical situations, both doors closed, both KPL (6 & buttons Off. Press the button on the 6 button and let the door open. Then press the button on the 8 button. Does the door open or no and does the KPL LED turn On or no.

[jpoje]

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

In identical situations:

 

both LED's off

both doors down

 

kpl 6: one press will OPEN door and put led ON. (and led stays ON)

kpl 6: second press will CLOSE door and put led OFF. (and led stays OFF)

(magnetic sensor will keep led ON if door is OPEN and OFF when CLOSED)

 

kpl 8: one press will NOT open door and put led ON. (and led stays ON)

kpl 8: second press will OPEN door and put led OFF. (BUT led comes right back ON as the sensor detects door open.)

 

I've done the above numerous times during a two week time period, even going as far as rechecking and marking every wire connection on garage door openers, sensors, i/olincs, etc on both installations and checking every setting I could think of in the ISY scenes. It drove me crazy that I couldn't get both KPL's to work exactly the same.

 

Then, like I said, today, I converted that KPL6 (mentioned above) to a KPL8 with a conversion kit from Smarthome and that's when I realized that the newly converted kpl no longer works with the one press method as mentioned above (kpl6). It is now working identical to my other KPL8 which requires the two presses to open or close door.

 

I totally understand that the KPL6 and 8 should work exactly the same, but for some reason they did not. I can't run the diagnostic tool as you suggest, as I would have to convert the kpl8 back to a 6.

 

I most appreciate the help.

[LeeG]

Run the Event Viewer using one of the 8 button KPLs.

 

Is a different Secondary button being used when in 8 button mode?

 

Sounds like a Scene or Program did not get updated. For example, button D on a 6 button is totally different from button D on an 8 button.

[Teken]

There are several things I would like to bring to light. As your experience mirrors my own only a few weeks back.

 

Upon installing a *Dimmer Style KPL* and turning on the load switch there was a horrendous buzzing coming from the KPL.

 

I found out that the default ramp rate was set for 0.5 seconds. This caused the (not dimmable) CFL to buzz and pulse!

 

Please check via the ISY that the ramp rate is NOT in fact set to 0.5 seconds, and if so change it to instant on.

 

The delay may be enough to throw the whole garage I/O set up out of sync. Also, I noted that I had troubles using the actual load (Main on/off) button to control the garage I/O set up from another KPL used solely for control & indicator until I moved the function to another button.

 

This may be a instance of a firmware level that may be causing this odd behavior which many people may not be aware of.

 

I hope this brings some insight and solutions to you.

 

Regards

 

Teken . . .

[oberkc]

Upon installing a *Dimmer Style KPL* and turning on the load switch there was a horrendous buzzing coming from the KPL.

 

Teken...based on the original post, I understand the buzzing was from the "ISY component" (later explained as the blue ISY box). I have no explanation why the ISY, itself, would buzz.

 

kpl 6: one press will OPEN door and put led ON. (and led stays ON)

kpl 6: second press will CLOSE door and put led OFF. (and led stays OFF)

(magnetic sensor will keep led ON if door is OPEN and OFF when CLOSED)

 

kpl 8: one press will NOT open door and put led ON. (and led stays ON)

kpl 8: second press will OPEN door and put led OFF. (BUT led comes right back ON as the sensor detects door open.)

 

I still think your keypad button was originally configured in non-toggle-off mode. Is your sensor is controller of a scene, with the keypad button as responder? Is your keypad button controller of a second scene with relay as responder? Can you confirm momentary A mode for your relay? If answers to all these questions are yes, put your keypad button in non-toggle-off.

 

I've done the above numerous times during a two week time period, even going as far as rechecking and marking every wire connection on garage door openers, sensors, i/olincs, etc on both installations and checking every setting I could think of in the ISY scenes. It drove me crazy that I couldn't get both KPL's to work exactly the same.

 

I don't believe this is a wiring problem.

[Teken]

I believe what he may be referring to is hearing the buzzing from the immediate area of the ISY, but in fact the buzzing is coming from the PLM.

 

I have experienced this exact same thing when the device was in some frantic state and the PLM was mimicking this distress.

 

Teken . . .

[LeeG]

jpoje

 

In the Scene where the KPL button is the Controller and the I/O Linc Relay is the Responder, check the On Level for the I/O Linc Relay when the KPL button node below the Scene name is clicked. For the ON command to open the door the On Level should be 100%. The ISY is setting the I/O Linc Relay Responder On Level to 0% as the initial value when the Scene is created. This would cause the OFF command to open the garage door which is what is happening. The first KPL button press turns the KPL button ON but does not move the door because the Relay does not turn On. The next press turns the button Off sending an OFF command which now moves the door because the Relay is responding to an OFF command when the door is closed. This happens when the Relay Responder On Level is 0% rather than 100%.

 

Lee

[jpoje]

jpoje

 

In the Scene where the KPL button is the Controller and the I/O Linc Relay is the Responder, check the On Level for the I/O Linc Relay when the KPL button node below the Scene name is clicked. For the ON command to open the door the On Level should be 100%. The ISY is setting the I/O Linc Relay Responder On Level to 0% as the initial value when the Scene is created. This would cause the OFF command to open the garage door which is what is happening. The first KPL button press turns the KPL button ON but does not move the door because the Relay does not turn On. The next press turns the button Off sending an OFF command which now moves the door because the Relay is responding to an OFF command when the door is closed. This happens when the Relay Responder On Level is 0% rather than 100%.

 

Lee

 

That makes perfect sense, BUT the scene where kpl8 button is controller and relay is responder, is set to 100%.

 

This is what I have observed from within the ADMIN CONSOLE (if this matters).

 

SCENE where kpl8 button is controller and relay is responder (set at 100%, momentary C, toggle mode set normal, and starting in the "off" state with door down).

 

1) When the "Relay scene icon" is highlighted---clicking OFF OPENS door---clicking ON CLOSES door---clicking OFF again OPENS door---clicking ON again CLOSES door.

 

2) When the "Relay device" is highlighted from within the scene---clicking OFF does nothing---clicking ON opens door---clicking OFF again still does nothing---clicking ON closes door.

 

 

Thank you for all the suggestions on the ISY "buzzing", it may have been the PLM as they are next to each other. That issue was resolved when I did a second factory reset on the kpl module (I must have done it wrong the first time).

[jpoje]

OMG!!! Thanks LeeG for bringing up that 100% setting.

 

Just for the hell of it, I set the new KPL8 (formerly the kpl6) TO 0% (yes, ZERO percent) and it WORKS, set my other KPL8 to 0% and it also WORKS perfectly, one button press-door up, next button press-door down!

 

Thanks to ALL for all the suggestions!

[LeeG]

jjpoje

 

Can I assume the ISY is not on one of the latest Beta images.

 

Reversing 0%-100% or 100%-0% On Level setting reverses what the On and Off commands do.

 

Glad it is doing what you want.

 

Lee

[jpoje]

jjpoje

 

Can I assume the ISY is not on one of the latest Beta images.

 

Reversing 0%-100% or 100%-0% On Level setting reverses what the On and Off commands do.

 

Glad it is doing what you want.

 

Lee

 

 

The ISY software version that I have is 3.1.10.

 

My KPL8 button set at 100% worked exactly as you described it would work being set at 0% (how you said the ISY would initially set up the scene), which prompted me to then set it to 0% to see what would happen. Somehow it is working the exact opposite of how you described, which would mean I possible have something wired up backwards?

 

All I know is when it was set to 100%, the KPL8 button required me to press it twice before the door would move (up or down), (just like your description of how it would work at 0%).

 

With it set to 0%, I only have to press the button once to move door (up or down), which is a much preferable operation.

 

Thanks again for your assistance.

[LeeG]

Don't worry about the wiring. Whether using red/black or green/black is a matter of personal choice. Should the I/O Linc Sensor be On when the door is closed or should the Sensor be On when the door is open. Either works, just have to have some of the other options set to be consistent with the Sensor.

 

The Scene Responder On Level for the Relay determines whether an ON command turns the Relay On or an OFF command turns the Relay On, in combination with whether the Sensor is On or Off (assuming Momentary C). Just have to set the On Level consistent with the Sensor state which is controlled by using green/black or red/black. Neither implementation is right or wrong, simply your choice as to whether the Sensor is On when the door is closed or On when the door is open and what restrictions do you want to put on what command will do what action.

 

Same with the Momentary mode. Momentary C is neither right nor wrong. Simply another choice. In Momentary C the Insteon Scene On/Off commands much match the Sensor state. In Momentary B either command will turn the Relay On regardless of the Sensor state. Again, personal choice. Just a matter of how you want it to work. Neither choice is right or wrong.

 

I made an assumption about the Sensor state versus door open/closed. It would have been a better answer to tell you to reverse the On Level rather than set a specific value.

 

As an FYI it is not how many times the button is pressed that makes the difference. It is whether an On or Off command is sent. It may be necessary to cycle through a button press to get to the correct command but it is not the number of presses that makes the difference. It is that the correct command is being sent.

[jpoje]

I do very much appreciate the further explanation. I realize now it was the "on level" that was throwing me off the entire time.