matapan Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Does anyone on this forum employ X10 motion sensors for their lighting programming? When I deployed my first X10 motion sensor triggered timer lights, I discovered they didn't always work as expected; lights would turn on, but not turn off, or turn on after being turned off manually. In looking at the event logs for the motion sensor, I noticed the following behavior: - When motion was detected, the sensor LED would flicker, indicating a response to the motion. - The event log would sometimes, but not always register a device ON event. (e.g. A10 ON) - When the ON event is not registered, the device address shows up in the log (e.g. A10, no ON or OFF) - The OFF event doesn't always register. I tried this with a number of sensors, all with similar results. The RF transceiver is right next to the PLM, so there should be a good communication conduit. I swapped transceivers to see if that might have an effect. I didn't see any change with the swap. Do users of X10 wireless motion sensors use just the ON code and some type of countdown to determine occupancy? Are the transmission of device ID without the ON or OFF codes normal?
Brian H Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I don't use any X10 Motion Sensors with Insteon, but do answer support questions in the X10 forums. Which model X10 Motion Sensor? Some models have more features. Some you can set the delay before an Off is sent after no more motion is detected. Some can be set to only detect after it gets dark. What transceiver module are you using to receive the signals from the Motion Sensors? One thing with X10 Motion sensors is. Forgetting about the Dusk/Dawn Sensor it includes. When it gets dark it send an On to the next higher address from the motion address and an Off when it gets light. Like your A10. An A11 On will be sent when it gets dark and an A11 Off when it gets light. If the lights you are controlling shine on the motion sensor. It is possible it maybe sending an Off to the dusk dawn address and messing up your reception. There are modifications where users have black taped the dusk dawn sensor so it always thinks it is dark. Also if the X10 received command is triggering an event in you ISY99i setup. Allow a few seconds delay before sending the Insteon command. So the X10 power line command is completed. http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Comparison_of ... on_Sensors
oberkc Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Does anyone on this forum employ X10 motion sensors for their lighting programming? Yes. Do users of X10 wireless motion sensors use just the ON code and some type of countdown to determine occupancy? That is how I do it. Are the transmission of device ID without the ON or OFF codes normal? I cannot say that I have specifically noticed this, but I have not looked very hard. Like you, I get intermittent response from X-10 motion sensors, but it is often battery issues. Also, my distance between sensor and reciever is pretty great. I have not tried the delay suggested by BrianH, but that may be useful.
Brian H Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I missed one of your questions. All of the motion sensors, except the discontinued DM10A, have a countdown after not detecting motion and send an Off command.
matapan Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 I am using a mix of X10 motion sensors, models MS-13a, 14a, and 16a. I am also using RR501 and TM751 tranceivers set to the same house code for receiving the signals from X10 wireless devices. (Using two for the range). Most of the sensors will generate a house code ON command, but the house code OFF command seems to be more intermittent. What is interesting is that a house code without a command is generated a lot. What is this? Is this normal? Some of the sensors will generate a house code OFF command immediately after the house code ON command is issued, regardless of how the countdown for the OFF command is configured. A few of the outdoor motion sensors will generate the dusk/dawn codes. Are these ON and OFF commands generated in place of the normal day ON and OFF commands? For example, if A10 is the device address of the motion sensor for day commands, then A11 is the address for the dusk/dawn commands. Are the A11 commands generated only when dusk/dawn is detected, or are both A10 and A11 commands generated? I tried it, and what's generated seems to be a mixed bag. Maybe taping the dusk dawn sensor is the way to go so only one device address is used all the time. Presumably, this forces one to use the dusk/dawn address all the time. Does this mean that the day address is available as a slot for another motion sensor? I'm mostly interested in what user's experiences have been, like oberkc's. I've read the manual for the sensors and know pretty much how they're configured, but the way the sensors are behaving operationally in the event log seems to deviate from what I initially expected. So I'm looking for a level set more than anything else. Also, is a MS10A also deployable as an X10 sensor? If so, how is the device address configured for this device? The documentation for this sensor seems to talk about a security system, which I don't have or use. Any way to specify the house code and address code? Or, is there a default one the unit uses? Thanks!
LeeG Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 A full X10 command is made up of two messages. The first message contains the house/unit, the second message contains the house/command. They go on the powerline as independent messages so something could interfere with one message or the other. The X10 maxi controller can send only the house/unit or only the house/command as some devices require only one or the other to program them. I don't use X10 motion sensors so have no direct experience but doubt they would send only 1 of the 2 messages. Sending only the house/command would not insure the correct unit is responding. Sending on house/unit without a follow on command message has no effect.
Brian H Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 TM751s are not polite and if it receives the same House Code RF command it will gladly step on any partially sent X10 or Insteon power line signals. From another controller. That could possible explain why some commands are being missed. MS10A is a security sensor and does not send standard X10 RF commands. It also sends a hourly message so a security device knows it is still alive.
oberkc Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 For example, if A10 is the device address of the motion sensor for day commands, then A11 is the address for the dusk/dawn commands. Are the A11 commands generated only when dusk/dawn is detected, or are both A10 and A11 commands generated? I tried it, and what's generated seems to be a mixed bag. I use the eagle eye sensors. I understand that the primary address is used for motion "on" and "off" commands, the next higher address is used for dusk/dawn, and never the two shall mix. Nothing in my experience suggests otherwise. I can only assume that other brands and models are the same.
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