Electrical Sub-Panel Phase Problem?

[biredale]

I am having trouble communicating with a new Insteon 2466SW ToggleLinc in my garage (separate structure). The garage is powered by an electrical sub-panel and I am using a plug-in phase couple on my clothes dryer circuit in the house. I cannot access the device from my ISY box.

 

I already have several components working in the garage, PLC and wireless;

 

72450 IOLinc

2456S3E Outdoor Appliance Modules

2420M PIR Motion Detector

 

I have tried to factory reset the switch and reinstall but with no effect. Could this possibly be a faulty switch?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Brian

[apostolakisl]

If you have other devices working in the garage, I doubt it is a comm issue, although I suppose the other devices could all be on the other leg of your 120 and just the one leg is not communicating.

 

First thing would be to factory reset the device.

 

Next, I suggest you uninstall the device and temporarily wire it to a standard 3 prong appliance cord. Then you can plug it in and test it at a known good location. A lot of people do this with every device prior to installing them. You can make a wire with alligator clips at the end for quick connect/disconnect (use insulated clips to avoid sparks/popped breakers/and uncomfortable shocks). Some people will also program the devices in this mode prior to install just to make sure all is well before going to the trouble of a real install.

 

Of course, if you can't get it to work at a known good location I suppose it is defective.

[biredale]

Excellent Idea.. Wish I had thought to do that, sometimes loading up these gangs are a pain. The garage sub-panel should be OK, is there a 'cheap' / 'easy' way to determine whether the phases are bridged?

 

 

Brian

[apostolakisl]

Yes, getting the wires packed into a gang box can be a pain, mostly with doubles and tripples. That is why people like to test and configure prior to doing all that work.

 

The easiest way to know that you have good comm on both phases is simply to put a device on each phase, join it to a scene, and run a scene test. One or no hops means strong communication, 2 or 3 and it is weak.

 

If you want to test the phases using the switchlinc on a cord (or a lamplinc etc), the easiest is to plug it into an outlet on a panel you are testing, then a different outlet on the other phase. At your breaker box you can see which breaker turns the outlet on/off. The breakers alternate phase as you go up and down. So if you can find a different outlet that is an odd number of jumps away, then it is on the opposite phase. If no such outlet exists, you can open the panel and swap the wire from that breaker to the one above or below it (provided it is the same amps) and see how it works on each phase. You could also yank the entire breaker out and swap it with the one above or below if the amps are different. They just pull straight out (have to pull hard).

[biredale]

Thanks for all the information. My sub-panel was unbridged dual phase, I thought the coupler in the house would have bridged the sub too. A little rewriting in the panel to put both breakers I needed on the same phase and, presto.. All is well in the automation world.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Brian

[ELA]

A word of caution when a person elects to move circuits around in a panel. (aside from the obvious dangers).

 

If you know for sure your home does not use any MWBC (MultiWire Branch Circuits) then fine.

 

If you do not know what a MWBC is then do not move circuits around without doing some research, or call an electrician.

You can create a hazardous situation with an overloaded neutral wire by putting two circuits on the same phase (leg) , if they happen to be a MWBC pair. (most usually a red and black wire sharing a common neutral).

[apostolakisl]

A word of caution when a person elects to move circuits around in a panel. (aside from the obvious dangers).

 

If you know for sure your home does not use any MWBC (MultiWire Branch Circuits) then fine.

 

If you do not know what a MWBC is then do not move circuits around without doing some research, or call an electrician.

You can create a hazardous situation with an overloaded neutral wire by putting two circuits on the same phase (leg) , if they happen to be a MWBC pair. (most usually a red and black wire sharing a common neutral).

 

It should be easy to tell if you have this. If you have a black, white, and ground in a single jacket with black to the breaker, white to the neutral buss, and ground to the ground bar, then there isn't mwbc.

[biredale]

Thanks all!,

 

 

Brian

[gatchel]

A word of caution when a person elects to move circuits around in a panel. (aside from the obvious dangers).

 

If you know for sure your home does not use any MWBC (MultiWire Branch Circuits) then fine.

 

If you do not know what a MWBC is then do not move circuits around without doing some research, or call an electrician.

You can create a hazardous situation with an overloaded neutral wire by putting two circuits on the same phase (leg) , if they happen to be a MWBC pair. (most usually a red and black wire sharing a common neutral).

 

MWBC's should also be on a tandem breaker. Notice I said SHOULD.

[ELA]

gatchel,

I am guessing you meant to say a double pole or two single poles with a handle tie? Tandem would put the circuits on the same phase (leg).

I believe the handle tie requirement was not introduced until the 2008 NEC revision.

 

There are many older homes out there with MWBC's on separate breakers without a handle tie.

 

The point of my post was to caution those without an understanding of MWBCs to be careful.

It is not always very easy to trace the circuits to the point where they enter the service cabinet but may be required if you want to move circuits around.

 

As an X-electrician I can also tell you that there are times when more than one cable enters the cabinet through the same opening and this makes it very hard to tell which neutral belongs to which wire etc.

Also keep in mind that not all installations utilize cable. Multiple circuits can be run in pipe.

 

Point being exercise caution when moving circuits around. If you feel you know what you are doing fine, otherwise get some help. I felt it is important to include a note about MWBCs if you are going to suggest moving circuits around.