iostream212 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I have an outletlinc used to control an outdoor water feature. It is the only weak point in my insteon network of ~50 devices. I contacted smarthome about it and they advised me to put a filter on it because the pump of the water feature is too noisy and causing communication issues. The filter is large and I can not mount it in the weatherproof enclosure where the outletlinc is. Any suggestions on how to fix the comm issues? or even a deep weatherproof enclosure that can hold all these devices? In the meanwhile I have been toggling power to the outletlinc to make it respond. It will usually last s command or two before locking up. I do have good plant cover to hide a deeper box if available. Thanks in advance. Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
Brian H Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 If the pump is less than 5 amps. There is a fairly small wire in filter from Leviton that I know some have used. May depend on the room in your electrical box. http://www.smarthome.com/4835/Leviton-6 ... ock/p.aspx
oberkc Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Do you have access to the wiring feeding the outlet (such as in a basement or attic)? If so, break into this wiring and add an inlinelinc and filter. Replace the outetlinc with a normal outlet, controlling it with the inlinelinc.
iostream212 Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Thank you for the ideas. I have some space in the box so I will measure and see if the smaller filter will work. Also I do have access to add a filter and a inlinelinc. I'll try the smaller filter first and then use a inlinelinc if needed. Thanks! Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
C Martin Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I have used several pumps but I have used the appliancelinc with no problems in the past. I am now using the switchlinc relay that's wired to a regular outlet with no problems. I have 2 fishpond pumps that run just fine. I am also using a fountain with a pump and filter for a fresh water supply for my dogs.
ergodic Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 There are a deep NEMA 3 and 4X outdoor-rated enclosure boxes you could configure an outlet in. The non-metallic ones run about $20-$30. Your local electric supply house will have them. I'm a little surprised that the pump motor is an issue. I have three fountains and a waterfall with various pump sizes, and I've never had an Insteon noise problem with any of them, including the half-dozen other pumps I've taken out of service over the years. It's not impossible of course but I would definitely want to test a temporary setup with a filterlinc before concluding that's the real issue. Also, understand if you put a filter upstream you'll problems if you want to put any control devices on that branch past the filter. The dual-mode devices can help, but there are distance limits and of course if the pump is really generating noise they may not work anyway. I would try to find a solution that places the filter on just the pump circuit if you can. I've not had a much success with any of the wire-in X10 filters on Insteon devices, but others report they work. It probably depends on the degree of noise/signal-sucking. Testing before you start bolting things down is advised.
iostream212 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 This is odd that many are running fountain motors with no problem. My fountain is not really that big either. The outletlinc would just stop responding after a few commands. The only way to fix was to trip the breaker it was on. Then I'd get a few more commands in before it froze again. I thought it was defective so I exchanged it. The new one came and same thing... a few commands then it would lock up and need to be power toggled. That's when smart home tech said I needed a filter and here I am. Does gfci interfere with insteon signaling? Just wondering because the same circuit is controlled by a gfci receptacle. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
ergodic Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I have never had a problem with a GFI and I have lots of them. Some others have occasionally reported they suspected a problem, but I don't believe anything definite has ever been demonstrated. Getting a few commands successfully through and then total comm. failure doesn't really feel much like a noise problem to me, though of course anything is possible with Insteon signaling. Smarthome support usually goes to the noise / signal strength issue first -- it's easy, and to be fair it is common. The simple way to find out is to test by plugging the pump through a filterlinc and see if that resolves it. Have you tried putting an access point somewhere on that branch? Also, is the pump control device dual-mode (RF/Powerline). Either of these might help - if not to solve the problem, at least to narrow it down. Also if you haven't, try to find out if the comm issue is with the ISY (which is to say PLM comm.), or generally. The easy way to do that is to link the pump device with a KPL button or other device somewhere as a controller in a scene and see if pump control works when you press the button.
TJF1960 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Just as a test you might try a 50-100ft extension cord from the outletlinc to the pump. I had a similar issue with an appliancelinc and battery charger once. The extension cord provided enough of a buffer to prevent the module from locking up when turned on and off every few times. If it help then you will know a filter will help.
ELA Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 iostream212, Your problem is beginning to sound more like a lockup than a communications reliability issue? When the problem occurs can you manually use the set button to turn the device on/off? If it is truly locked up, possibly due to a turn off transient from the motor, then the suggested filter may suppress the transient. You could also use what is referred to as a snubber. The snubber would attenuate the Insteon signal but only a small amount. TJF1960's suggestion as a test basically uses the long length of wire as a filter. oberkc's suggestion of putting an in-linelinc in the basement ( or feed point) with a normal outlet sounds like a good suggestion as it also does what TJF1960's suggestion did. That way you may not need any additional filter. It also has the advantage of reducing the distance that other devices have to transmit over to reach the pump control.
iostream212 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 The plot thickens... the manual set button does not work after the unit locks up. What does that mean? I already replaced it once. Possibly a defective replacement? My filter arrives today so I will do more testing later. Thanks for all the great ideas. This community is awesome. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Brian H Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Most likely the noise spike from the pump motor turning Off. Has confused the modules electronics and it is lost until you cycle the power. I have an old ApplianceLinc I can lock up with one load in my house cycling On and Off.
iostream212 Posted July 19, 2012 Author Posted July 19, 2012 Filter arrived today. Didn't have time to do a lot of testing after the install (got the wire in module mentioned earlier). The outletlinc has not locked up since adding the filter. I still have spotty control when using my kpl button. I have flawless control (so far) from Mobilinc, but mobilinc not always showing the correct device status. Next step then is to manual link to a different kpl and see what happens. Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
iostream212 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Posted July 26, 2012 The wire-in filter improved lockup of the device, but reliability dropped - less than 50%. Going to return it. I will change to a regular outlet and wire it to a switchlinc relay and see what happens. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Brian H Posted July 26, 2012 Posted July 26, 2012 OH. If the filter was on the Line side into the OutletLinc. Then you actually reduced the power line signals trying to access it. The filter has to be between the output of the OutletLinc and the load itself.
arw01 Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 What was the ultimate solution to this issue? I'm chasing a few suckers around here and there and wondering if this little filter works OK or not.
iostream212 Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 What was the ultimate solution to this issue? I switched out the outletlinc for a switchlinc. Works perfect now. I did have the filter installed incorrectly as BrianH suggested in the previous post. I was installing in a weatherproof enclosure and the space available made it impossible for me to install the filter between outlet and device and keep the enclosure lid closed. Pm me if you want to buy the filter off me. $15, shipping included . Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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