hyounker Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 My wife found some "chandeliers" that she really liked. Each chandelier has ten 10W, 12V halogen bulbs. Here's some of the crazy details of this installation (pushed on by the insistance of my wife to have these lights). She wanted the chandeliers to be mounted under our deck where we have a poured concrete outdoor bar area. No problem, I sprayed them with liquid rubber-like sealant (even around the "seal" area where the small glass shades meet the fixture). I was careful not to block any vent holes. At the very top of the light, there is a transformer housed in the upper canopy, which is protected. Currently, the two chandeliers are connected to a regular, Home Depot style dimmer switch. The dimmer works perfectly and the wife is happy. Well.....until she found out that she might be able to control these lights with her phone, similar to other lights in the house!!!! So, my question is: What is the probability that the 2-wire insteon dimmer will work in this scenario? There is a dual band device on the other side of the wall from where this switch will be mounted, literally, inches away. There is no neutral wire in the switch box. Will the reliability of the switch vary with the dimming? Or, is it my turn to be the guinea pig!? Thanks for any help, H
Xathros Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 I can't say for sure but someone posted that they had success using these with some CFL's which leads me to think there is a halfway decent chance that it will work. -Xathros
Brian H Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 You maybe the first to test it. Since it is rated to need at least a 25 watt Incandescent Load as it steals power through the load. You maybe the first to try it.
hyounker Posted August 4, 2012 Author Posted August 4, 2012 Well, it didn't work. I hooked the 2-wire switch up and nothing happened. The lights would not come on at all. I looked around and found that the fuses (3amp) on both chandeliers was blown. Thinking that I may have done something wrong, I set off for the big orange box to get some fuses. I took another look over the wiring to make sure everything was correct. I turned off power, replaced the fuses and tried again. Fuses blown again. I am assuming that because the 2-wire Insteon switch is stealing power from the load, that the current draw across the fuses has increased and thus the problem. I'm wondering if I should try to up the amperage on the fuses a bit. Hmmm? hyounker
LeeG Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 "I'm wondering if I should try to up the amperage on the fuses a bit. " Under no circumstances! Potential fire hazard as well as invalidating fire insurance if they find the oversize fuses.
Brian H Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 You said 12 volt halogen lights so testing with them was needed. The 12 volt power supply probably does not like to be on a dimmer and blew its protective fuses. I agree 100% with LeeG. Do not change the fuses to a larger amperage. You could damage the two wire SwitchLinc {though I suspect it has an internal soldered on fuse} or the 12 volt power supply for the lights. The specifications page says uses less than 1 watt of power. That is like 0.00833 amps with a 120 volt line supply.
C Martin Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 hyounker, I am using a 2 wire dimmer to control Low Voltage Halogen lights and have found a problem. If I allow the dimmer to go to full brightness, I get a noticeable on and off flickering. It's not just a flicker but a noticeable on and off cycling. I am sure this has to do with the use of this device with a transformer. I have solved that problem by putting the lights in a scene and not allowing the switch to go to a full "On" level. I limit the switch to about 70% and things seem to fine. You may also want to use a program to make sure the light never goes to full "On". I hope this helps.
C Martin Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 hyounker, You must also trap for a "Fast On" in your scenario. It would be nice to disable the "Fast On". I don't know how fast your fuses react so trapping for "Fast On" may or may not be fast enough to keep your fuses from blowing.
hyounker Posted August 4, 2012 Author Posted August 4, 2012 You may also want to use a program to make sure the light never goes to full "On". Clarence, I cannot even get to that point with my lights. As soon as I turn the breaker on, the 2-wire switch apparently cycles on, and the fuses blow. I can't be sure how long it takes because when I return from the breaker box, the lights are already out and the fuses blown. You said 12 volt halogen lights so testing with them was needed.The 12 volt power supply probably does not like to be on a dimmer and blew its protective fuses. Brian, I had the circuit on a non-Insteon dimmer and have since returned to that dimmer to make sure the circuit is okay. While I appreciate all the concern about the fuses, we're all big boys here and a little testing seems to be the real purpose of this forum. Let others make mistakes for you!!! LOL!!! So, here's what I've found. The wiring is absolutely correct. I've checked, double-checked, and triple-checked. The original 3 amp fuses blow instantaneously, as far as I can tell. Again, they are smoked when I return from the breaker box. I upped the amperage in only one light to 4 amp, leaving the other light without a fuse. Again, the fuse was blown when I returned from the breaker box. I went one step farther to 5 amps in one light, again leaving the other light without a fuse. This time, the light came on, but I had no dimming capability. I left the light on long enough to test and determine what functionality I had (maybe 3 minutes). No smoke, no explosions, no burned to ground house. About a half hour later, I decided to try both lights with 5 amp fuses. I got the same results as with one light with a 5 amp fuse. Again, I only left it on for about 3 minutes. Maybe this information is helpful to somebody. Maybe not. I've moved on to using an InLineLinc and a SwitchLinc (repurposing the wires to the switch box). Lights work perfectly with the InLineLinc. Dimming and all. New question coming! Thanks to all, hyounker
C Martin Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Also as a point of information - something that I have found out through testing --- It seems that if you switch via a Scene or via the direct control from the ISY page, that control command is not seen by ISY programs. Any comments would be welcomed.
TJF1960 Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Also as a point of information - something that I have found out through testing --- It seems that if you switch via a Scene or via the direct control from the ISY page, that control command is not seen by ISY programs.Any comments would be welcomed. Programs containing "Control" in the "If" section will only work if the actual device is locally operated. In other words If Control 'Switchlinc 1' is switched On Then Else This program will only evaluate to true if the actual switch itself is manually turned on. If this program needs to be true no matter how the Switchlinc 1 is turned on then instead of "control" use "status".
Brian H Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Thanks for the tests. That is one more piece of information on the modules. Glad nothing got permanently damaged. When I was doing two way radio repairs. I would get users that said. My fuse blew and I tried a bigger one. Only to do more damage than originally happened. So I tend to be over cautious with over sized fuses.
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