haTime Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Howdy group, First post, first time breaking out of the basic light timers and decided to add some fun complexity to my life with a isy994! Trying to set my hallway lights (using 2476d and/or a remotelinc) to raise to 25% at night hours and 100% during the day. Idea is at night, turn on the lights without the blinding brightness into my kids rooms but help me make into the restroom at 2am in the morning and not kill myself with darkness . I found another thread that demonstrated how to accomplish this which matches my actions thus far but I’m stuck on one item.. The 3way circuit in the hallway was created using a scene so my program changes the scene settings ramp rate. It works when I use a remotelinc to trigger the scene every time and so does the switch at the wall but... once I raise the light manually at the switch and turn it off... turning it back on brings it to 100% and not the original 25%. Ideally it would be nice for me (during the night) to click the light once and it raise to 25%... then if I click it again, it raises to 100% for those times when I want the light to go up regardless of the time. Kinda over ride it. Interesting enough, I did find that once the program triggers… or I use the remote linc at least once to turn on the lights, the switch at the wall DOES work(scene does change), but if I raise it 100% (over ride situation), it resets the scene and is once again set to 100% every time I use the switch on the wall. I loose the 25% at the switch forever. So I’m guessing the smoking gun for me is that the switch works off the bat but once I raise it up to 100% it resets the scene and the program won’t trigger again unless I use the remote linc to activate it. I’m wondering if I need to use a variable to constantly reset the hallway every time the switch on the wall is used to ensure the scene stays active according to the program.. This is the part I’m stuck on or if there’s an easier way to accomplish this. I’m open for ideas… and thank in advance for anyone’s help!! I’m loving it so far and find this challenging and exciting..
LeeG Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 I suggest posting the Program(s) and the Scene information (which switch physically controls the load, which switch is the linked slave in the 3-way, which switch paddle is being used). When using the RemoteLinc both switches are Responders, reacting to the Responder On Level for the RemoteLinc as Controller. When the paddle of the slave switch is pressed the switch controlling the physical load is reacting to the Responder On Level for the slave switch as Controller. When the paddle on the switch physically controlling the load is pressed the Local On Level is controlling. When a SwitchLinc is reacting using the Responder On Level (RemoteLinc as Controller or slave switch as Controller) the response is the same each time no matter how many times the Controller paddle is pressed (not counting Fast On double tap). When a SwitchLinc is reacting to the Local On Level the first press goes to the Local On Level, the 2nd press goes to 100% On. That is the nature of SwitchLinc operation. A Program making changes based on time of day not only has to change the Responder On Level for each Controller, the Local On Level also has to be adjusted to handle the paddle press on the SwitchLinc that is physically controlling the load.
haTime Posted December 5, 2012 Author Posted December 5, 2012 Thanks for the quick response! I was playing with the variable idea to force the scene to reset itself in the event the paddle is raised to 100% but stopped after your reply to absorb some more reading again.. Here's a list of the devices, scene, and program being used. (This is where I started; I've since removed the variable garbage and experimentation stuff I was working on to provide the raw start point).. The Hallway has two switchs controlling the same set of lights (3 way design with two switch points).. I called one of the switches Hallway and the other one Hallway Main(In the wall this is the switch where the hot wire begins). I guess I could have used 1 and 2 but .. oh well. Dimmer Switch List being used. Name Location Is Load Relationships Type Hallway - No After Hours Hallway: Controller (2476D) SwitchLinc Dimmer v.27 Hallway main - No After Hours Hallway: Controller (2476D) SwitchLinc Dimmer v.27 Scene item After Hours Hallway (41382): Hallway: Controller Hallway main: Controller Program If From 8:55:00PM To 7:00:00AM (next day) Then In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) Else In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 100% (On Level) In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 100% (On Level)
haTime Posted December 5, 2012 Author Posted December 5, 2012 Part of the text was cut off. The Scene name is "After hours hallway" for reference. Here's a pic of the scene which has some more info. It's interesting I noticed the on level at 25% when the timer should have changed the scene by now.
LeeG Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 That is a good start. The Program is changing the Responder On Levels for the two SwitchLincs when the Scene is used in a Program or controlled through the Admin Console. You need a few additional statements in each clause. These are for the Then clause In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) – existing In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) - existing In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) - new In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) - new In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) - new I made an assumption ‘Hallway main’ is the SwitchLinc that has the Red wire connected to the load. If ‘Hallway’ is the SwitchLinc that has the Red wire connected to the load then the last statement should be In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) The three additional statements are required the Else clause with 100% On Level. The first two additional statements in the Then clause above set the cross-link relationship between the two SwitchLincs to 25% On Level. These will keep the status LEDs in sync. The third statement sets the Local On Level to 25% On Level.
haTime Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 Woo Hoo! It's breathing.. Almost there. It worked for pretty much all scenarios but Hallway Main seems to be an issue. I did confirm that ‘Hallway’ contains the red load wire which was a mistake on my part. I adjusted the code accordingly but results below are still the same regardless of the last line in the code begin hallway or hallway main.. Here’s my results. Program If From 8:55:00PM To 7:00:00AM (next day) Then In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set Hallway’ 25% (On Level) Else In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 100% (On Level) In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 100% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set Hallway’ 25% (On Level) Test Cases Normal 2 cases just after the program kicks in at the correct activation time. 1) Click “Hallway†once – Raises to 25% (Good) – Turn off Click “Hallway†once – Raises to 25% (Good) – Turn off **Led on switch rises to 100% but light is ok at 25% brightness in both tries. 2) Click on “Hallway Main†once - Raises to 25% (Good) – Turn off Click on “Hallway Main†once - Raises to 25% (Good) – Turn off **The Led light rises correctly to 25% and matches the light brightness Over Ride scenario 2 cases 1) Click “Hallway†once – Raises to 25% (Good) – Click “Hallway†a second time – Raises to 100% (Good) – Turn Off Click “Hallway†once – Raises to 25% (Good) – Click “Hallway†a second time – Raises to 100% (Good) – Turn Off **Led on switch rises to 100% for all cases but light brightness is ok at 25% and 100% each time. 2) Click “Hallway Main†once – Raises to 25% (Good) – Click “Hallway Main†a second time – Raises to 100% (Good) – Turn Off Click “Hallway Main†once – Raises to 100% (Not good) – Click “Hallway Main†a second time – Already at 100% (N/A) – Turn Off **Led on switch rises to 100% for all cases but light brightness is ok at 25% and 100% each time. I go back to Click “Hallway†and it raises to 25% as expected – Turn off I then return to click “Hallway Main†and it goes back to 25% as expected.. It seems Hallway is configured correctly but Hallway Main is not. I’m close....
LeeG Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 The last three Else statements should be 100% On Level Else In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 100% (On Level) In Scene ‘After Hours Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway’ 100% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set ‘Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set ‘Hallway’ 25% (On Level) In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set Hallway’ 25% (On Level) Something is not as expected/described when the Status LEDS go to 100% but the load is actually 25%. That is all under control of the switch which should be impossible. It is almost like the names are reversed. Use the Admin Console to turn 'Hallway main' node (not Scene) On when in the 25% On Level time frame. What happens to the Status LEDs and what happens to the actual load. The load should not turn On if 'Hallway' Red wire is connected to the load.
LeeG Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Add this to the Then (in addition to the In Scene ‘Hallway’ Set Hallway’ 25% (On Level) which is already there) In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set Hallway main’ 25% (On Level) and to the Else In Scene ‘Hallway main’ Set Hallway main’ 100% (On Level) That should take care of the situation where the slave SwitchLinc is being pressed and its LEDs go to 100% and the primary SwitchLinc turns the load On to 25%. Still have to find out why when the 'Hallway' paddle is pressed the LEDs go to 100% even though the load actually goes to 25%.
LeeG Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 In addition to the above changes right click on one of the SwitchLinc nodes in the My Lighting tree, select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine. Repeat for the other SwitchLinc. Right click on the Program name and select Run Else which will set everything to 100%. After Progress bars complete, right click Program name and select Run Then. This will set everything to 25%. Easy way to test without waiting for or changing If section. Note the results of each test as you did before, looking at both SwitchLinc Status LEDs for each test.
haTime Posted December 8, 2012 Author Posted December 8, 2012 Ok I did a lot today.. Let me see if I can summerize clearly.. Ran my previous tests - Same results. The switchlinc 'hallway' works all the time. 'Hallway main' works until I manually raise it 100% then will not return to 25% when turned on again. If run over to 'Hallway' and click there, it resets the whole thing. I ran your tests. Diag and and such. 'Hallway main' works as expected. LED, light and all. 'Hallway has 2 problems when using the node in the ISY (as you mentioned) 1)The led rises to 100% in both scenarios. 'Then' under 25% and 'else' under 100%. 2)The lights do NOT turn on at all... even the though the led moves up and down So... I pulled the switches out from the scene and ISY completely. Linked them manually and all works as expected in a 3 way setup. I brought them back into ISY and removed all links as I did that. Added them both into the scene again as both 'controllers' Rewrote the programs from ground up. Now... My previous test results are still the same. Your test requests summary.. 1) The switches led lights DO follow correctly 25% and 100% respectfully. 2)but... the lights still do NOT come on when turning on the light from the node in ISY I would image the ISY node direct should be able to control them both. Have I hooked them up correctly? If I didn't wouldn't then also NOT work outside the ISY? oh boy.. Hey listen, I really want to thank you for your time and effort. It's REALLY appreciated you sticking with me. My leak sensors, auto lights, vacation timers and other things I seem to get the hang of it.. Just this nasty 3 way.
LeeG Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Now... My previous test results are still the same. 'Hallway has 2 problems when using the node in the ISY 2)The lights do NOT turn on at all... even the though the led moves up and down Please confirm that ‘Hallway’ is the SwitchLinc with the Red wire connected to the lights. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "2)but... the lights still do NOT come on when turning on the light from the node in ISY" Turning the 'Hallway main' On/Off (this is the switch with the Red wire capped) will not turn the actual light On. Using Insteon Direct commands affect that specific device only. Since nothing is connected to the Red wire nothing is physically being controlled. Turning 'Hallway' On/Off (the switch with the Red wire connected to the load) with Insteon Direct commands must turn the light On and Off.
haTime Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 I pulled both switches out of the wall. Hallway Main Sticker that says primary Confirmed voltage at Line wire. Confirmed voltage from red load wire when unit turned on and no voltage when off. Confirmed red load wire is the connection to the lights. Hallway Sticker that says secondary Confirmed voltage from line wire. Confirmed voltage at red load wire regardless of the switch being off or on. Confirmed red load wire was CAPPED It confused me that the red load wire in the hallway switch was always hot. Even though it's a 3 way and it was capped I still would have expected it to switch on and off given the status of the switch...
Brian H Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Your meters high input impedance may not be enough to load down the small leakage current through the triac inside the Switchlinc with the capped red load wire. It could be a misleading reading. If it had a higher load on it. It probably would go on and off as you expected.
LeeG Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 The Primary/Secondary designations have no meaning beyond allowing the Smarthome doc to have a positive way to reference each SwitchLinc. They do come prelinked from Smarthome. When each SwitchLinc was added to the ISY was the 'remove existing links' option used?
haTime Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 Yes. Since we started this too I've removed them once more more and relinked them with the remove links option
LeeG Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 okay, thanks. Lets verify some of the previous information. You did Set button linking with all the links and local on levels set to 25%. When done manually all things worked turning On to 25% from either paddle, both Status LEDs and actual light level went to the desired 25% On Level with either paddle. What ISY firmware is being used.
haTime Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 ISY firmware: Insteon_UD994 v.3.2.6 When done manually all things worked turning On to 25% from either paddle, both Status LEDs and actual light level went to the desired 25% On Level with either paddle. ~Yes, mostly; See below for the mostly part... And since the isy reboot the leds also follow correctly. Two things fail at this point. 1) I double click 'Hallway main' to 100% during the 25% timeframe, it won't return back to 25%. Turning it off then on again goes it goes back to 100%. That is NOT the case with 'hallway' switch. It always returns to 25% even after a 100% double click over ride. Second item is controlling 'hallway' from the ISY node. ON and OFF change the switches leds up and down but it never impacts the lights.
haTime Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 I should copy the program again since I rewrote it.. Make sure we're referring to the same one.
LeeG Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 “Two things fail at this point. 1) I double click 'Hallway main' to 100% during the 25% timeframe, it won't return back to 25%. Turning it off then on again goes it goes back to 100%. That is NOT the case with 'hallway' switch. It always returns to 25% even after a 100% double click over ride.†The ‘Hallway’ switch always causing the ‘Hallway main’ switch and light to go to 25% with a single paddle tap is because ‘Hallway main’ is being told to turn On as a Responder device of Controller ‘Hallway’. As a Responder ‘Hallway main’ is obligated to react to the Responder link record information which is currently set to 25%. This is correct/expected behavior for an Insteon Responder. The first part, the Fast On double tap going to 100% is correct. Will have to look into the ‘Hallway main’ SwitchLinc reaction to additional single taps after the Fast On double tap. Normally to cycle between 25% and 100% by the load control device the SwitchLinc paddle is tapped once each time. Because this reaction is of the load control device using the paddle on the load control device (rather than a Responder device reaction initiated by ‘Hallway’), all reaction is controlled by the SwitchLinc firmware and Local On Level information in the device. Will have to do some research into a SwitchLinc response after a local Fast On when the initial Local On Level is not set to 100%. †Second item is controlling 'hallway' from the ISY node. ON and OFF change the switches leds up and down but it never impacts the lights.†This is the correct/expected behavior for Insteon. Controlling a specific node On/Off does not cause linked devices to react. Since no load is connected to ‘Hallway’ no light actually turns On/Off. If ‘Hallway main’ node is turned On/Off the ‘Hallway’ status LEDs will not change. Again because controlling an individual device does not cause linked devices to react. To control both devices from the Admin Console or an ISY Program turn the Scene On/Off. What is the firmware level of the ‘Hallway main’ SwitchLinc? This is displayed on the second line in the right pane when ‘Hallway main’ node is clicked in the My Lighting tree.
LeeG Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 The Fast On response by the SwitchLinc is changed in later versions. I have a v.36 SwitchLinc Dimmer. When a Fast On double tap is done the SwitchLinc goes to 100% On as expected. The next single tap takes it to 25% On. Next single tap goes to 100% On. Next single tap goes to 25% On. The old v.27 SwitchLinc will have to be updated to avoid the 100% On from a single tap following a double tap Fast On.
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