Keypadlinc status LED OFF as part of scene

[johnstewart]

I've recently invested in Insteon during a kitchen remodel, and because I wanted to integrate my old X10 stuff better, ponied up for an ISY99i Pro w/ IR. I've just begun setting stuff up and am unable to find a good answer to an issue.

 

My setup includes a Keypadlinc (KPL) in my kitchen. It is wired up to my ceiling lighting, button A.

 

I've got a scene set up named "Kitchen Mood", which turns on a few lights, and also turns OFF a few, including the ceiling lights (I had a similar setup before introducing the ISY, and didn't run into the following issue).

 

What happens is that when I hit the button to engage this scene, the LED on the A button turns ON, even though the scene is actually turning OFF this light.

 

This is a screenshot of the scene. The button A on the KPL is "Kitchen Ceiling KPL":

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/44258126/Screenshots/bi~2.png

 

I guess the issue is that somehow it's considered an "ON" command as regards to the scene even though I'm setting the On Level to 0? Is there any way to associate this as an OFF so it shuts off the LED properly (as it used to do when I set up this scene manually between all the devices, pre-ISY)?

 

thanks!

[Vyrolan]

I guess the issue is that somehow it's considered an "ON" command as regards to the scene even though I'm setting the On Level to 0? Is there any way to associate this as an OFF so it shuts off the LED properly (as it used to do when I set up this scene manually between all the devices, pre-ISY)?

 

Ok, so I'm guessing it's an 8-button KPL and the ceiling lights are connected to the red load wire...so the A button is just the local load. So in that case, I don't think there's anything you can do. The LED will always represent the On/Off of the load...and it is technically "on" just at level zero. If it were a secondary KPL button, then you could control the LED by having it as a responder to the scene.

 

I think you're only option is to use an ISY program. Instead of having the ceiling lights in the scene with a zero On Level, simply have a program that detects "Kitchen Mood" being switched On that will turn the ceiling lights off (and thus the LED off as well).

[johnstewart]

Hrm, okay, thanks.

 

So there's no way to have a device be part of a scene as OFF (it's always ON, even if level 0)?

 

That does seem a weird limitation, since it's something you can do out of the box without any ISY brains.

 

Thank you for the suggestion; whacking at a program now.

[Vyrolan]

So there's no way to have a device be part of a scene as OFF (it's always ON, even if level 0)?

 

That does seem a weird limitation, since it's something you can do out of the box without any ISY

That's my understanding at least. Maybe one of the others will say otherwise, but I'm pretty sure that's correct.

[LeeG]

johnstewart

 

The posted image has the Scene name selected with the Responder values when the Scene name is used.

 

Click on the Red KeypadLinc button node name below the Scene name. The Responder values now displayed are those in effect when the Secondary KPL button is pressed. Set the Responder values for when the Secondary KPL button is Controller. If the KPL load does not respond according to the that Responder On Level (assuming it is set to 0% On Level), right click the KPL primary node in the My Llighting tree, select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine. Then change the Scene button A Responder On level away from 0% On Level. After the update is complete move the slider back to 0% On Level. If that does not produce the desired result what is the KPL firmware level?

 

Also what ISY firmware is being usedf?

[Vyrolan]

The red one is the controller. He wants the a different button off. The only reason it's coming on is if its the one actually controlling the local load right? And so the led will be on even if the on level is 0. Is there a way to control the led of the load-controlling button? Most stuff about the LEDs only mention the secondary buttons but this isn't secondary? This is secondary button which controls a scene which turns the local load off.

[TJF1960]

What happens is that when I hit the button to engage this scene, the LED on the A button turns ON, even though the scene is actually turning OFF this light.

So just to clarify, When the scene is turned on the ceiling lights turn off but the load button "A" for those ceiling lights stay lit?

[LeeG]

If the KeypadLinc load control button LED is On and the load being controlled is Off there is an issue with the KPL. Because the responder on level values that were posted have nothing to do with what happens when the Secondary KPL button is pressed (making it the Controller) I am assuming Main A is not set to 0% On Level when the Secondary KPL button is acting as Controller. Or perhaps the wrong Insteon Engine information is stored for the KPL resulting in an incorrect configuration.

 

We need to know what the responder values are when the Red Secondary KPL button below the Scene name is selected. Those responder values are independent of the responder values that were posted which apply to when the ISY Scene name is being used.

 

Tim

 

I don't think the OP has described what happens when the ISY Scene name is used. The information thus far has been what happens when the KPL Secondary button is pressed. The mechanism the KPL uses to control Main A when being controlled from a separate Controller (PLM when using Scene name) is very different from when the Controller is a Secondary button on the same KPL.

 

When controlled by the PLM the link record information is controlling. When controlled from a Secondary KPL button in the same KPL, link records are not used. Rather internal configuration information is controlling. Also not all firmware levels of KPL supported turning the load control button Off from a Secondary KPL button.

[johnstewart]

Wow, okay, this got much more in depth than I expected! =)

 

So to clarify, the behaviour I was seeing was that when I pressed the button on the KPL associated as a controller in this scene, the load on button A *was* going off... but the LED was staying lighted.

 

Based on Vryolan's initial advice, I hacked in a program to turn it OFF whenever that button was pressed, which seemed to work well enough, if inelegant.

 

However, based on the rest of this thread, I deleted that program, then re-added KPL button A (Kitchen Ceiling KPL) as a responder, set to level 0.

 

NOW it seems to work!

 

I do notice that I'm unable to copy scene attributes to the button from the parent scene, so I did have to manually set the level both in the scene and the secondary KPL button itself; it's possible they were out of sync last night when I tried this.

 

Regardless, the behaviour when I hit the button for this scene on the KPL is that load on button A is un-lighted (as before), but now instead of turning on the LED on button A, it turns it off. In other words, working as expected.

 

I think the most likely explanation is that the slider was not really on 0%, but close enough to look so (I wish we could just enter integer values!).

 

Again, thanks all for the help!

[LeeG]

I agree with the possibility the slider was sitting on something like 1% which would make the load look like it was physically Off and the button LED On because it is On until 0% On or Off with an Off command.

 

The key here is that every Controller of a Scene has a unique set of Responder values for On Level and Ramp Rate. One of the powerful capabilities of Insteon. This aspect of Insteon is not always understood or appreciated for the flexibility it provides.

 

As an FYI if you right click on the slider it displays the value without changing it.

 

Glad to hear things are working.

[Vyrolan]

Glad to hear things are working.

Agreed.