KPL button no accurately showing scene or device status

[arw01]

Since a picture speaks a 1000 words, and I obviously cannot get this properly through my head.

 

I have a 6 button KPL that button B toggles the stairs light and I always want it to show the current status of the stairs light so the wifey does not need to press it two, three times to get the lights to come on or off. I have that KPL button as a responder to the scene that controls that stairs light (a 2 wire switchlinc kit).

 

[oberkc]

Since this button does not appear to be a controller of any scene, how does it "toggle the stair light"?

 

Are you saying that the button does not change status in response to any of the thee listed devices?

[arw01]

Since this button does not appear to be a controller of any scene, how does it "toggle the stair light"?

 

Are you saying that the button does not change status in response to any of the thee listed devices?

 

I think your question has prompted me the find the culprit.

 

The button toggles when I use the control-linc or the switch at the stairs, but was always out of sync when I happen to be downstairs as I often don't use the stair lights anymore since we put LED lights on the stair risers themselves.

 

I did NOT have it as a member of a basement off scene that I use in a program from a fast off on the switch on the stairs. Since the KPL doesn't directly follow the device, I think it was out of sync because I would use this fast off and the kpl light would remain on as a result. I will check that shortly when the programming routine finishes writing it out.

[oberkc]

I think it was out of sync because I would use this fast off and the kpl light would remain on as a result.

 

Your KPL STAYS ON when you press fast off? Yes, it sounds like there might be some interesting (and unexpected) interractions between the scenes and programs.

[arw01]

I think it was out of sync because I would use this fast off and the kpl light would remain on as a result.

 

Your KPL STAYS ON when you press fast off? Yes, it sounds like there might be some interesting (and unexpected) interractions between the scenes and programs.

 

Yes it was staying on, but I was not pressing the kpl button twice, the switch that has the fast off program was what I was pushing. I will monitor it now that the button is part of the fast off scene I was using.

 

Now I need to figure out how I could delay the stairs as part of the movie scene I have. May have to do that only in a program. It's a on/off 2 wire kit, and it turns off before the other lights can even be noticed dimming.

[arw01]

I think that is fixed now, haven't noticed it being out of sync anymore.

 

However, looking at another program I use to keep KPL buttons synced up, I wonder if I am causing the ISY extra work because of the method I choose in this:

 

If

Status 'Kitchen_oh' is On

 

Then

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' On

Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' On

Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' On

 

Else

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' Off

Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' Off

Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' Off

 

 

I would think this runs all the time? However, the details on the program tab say it only seems to run with switch operation. I guess I don't totally understand the difference between status and control obviously. Is the ISY smart enough to just run this once until the status changes again on the switch and then it runs. What is the difference to control then..

[oberkc]

If
Status 'Kitchen_oh' is On

Then
Wait 2 seconds
Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' On
Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' On
Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' On

Else
Wait 2 seconds
Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' Off
Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' Off
Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' Off

 

This looks to me like you are trying to use a program where a scene would be a better solution. Why not get rid of this program and make 'kitchen-oh' controller of the other three scenes?

[MikeD]

From what I understand the program will only run if the status of 'Kitchen_oh' is changed to On.

 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index ... m_Commands

 

From the wiki:

 

Control vs Status

 

Control 'node' is switched On

When you use 'Control' you are testing for how it was turned on, eg. On, Fast On, Off, Fast Off etc. You see the word 'switched' to emphasize that.

If the action listened for occurs (eg. Fast On) then this condition activates the program (causes program to run either then or else path).

 

Status 'node' is On

When you use 'Status' you are testing for its current brightness level.

If the status changes then this condition activates the program (causes program to run either then or else path).

 

~Mike

[arw01]

OK, maybe it will sink in if I ready it a few more times.. Control let you tell HOW it gets done, status just watches for changes...

 

I use fast off control for the basement dark scene.

[arw01]

 

This looks to me like you are trying to use a program where a scene would be a better solution. Why not get rid of this program and make 'kitchen-oh' controller of the other three scenes?

 

Probably didn't have my head around scenes at the time. I will check back into my scenes and see what I have as a controller. It does, however, work pretty well.

 

Alan

[oberkc]

From what I understand the program will only run if the status of 'Kitchen_oh' is changed to On.

I believe ANY change in status will trigger an evaluation. The path it takes from there depends on the results of the evaluation. If 'kitchen_oh' is a dimmer, then "on" means full 100%. Anything less will result in a "false" indication, running the "then" path.

[oberkc]

It does, however, work pretty well.

Functionally, it should. The difference with scenes is that you may notice a bit quicker response. Otherwise, there is no functional difference that I can see. One nice thing about scenes, however, is that they will continue to work even should something happen to the PLM or ISY.

[apostolakisl]

I think that is fixed now, haven't noticed it being out of sync anymore.

 

However, looking at another program I use to keep KPL buttons synced up, I wonder if I am causing the ISY extra work because of the method I choose in this:

 

If

Status 'Kitchen_oh' is On

 

Then

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' On

Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' On

Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' On

 

Else

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'Media_Keypad_D' Off

Set Scene 'Garage_Keypad_D' Off

Set Scene 'Frontdoor_Keypad_D' Off

 

 

I would think this runs all the time? However, the details on the program tab say it only seems to run with switch operation. I guess I don't totally understand the difference between status and control obviously. Is the ISY smart enough to just run this once until the status changes again on the switch and then it runs. What is the difference to control then..

 

I agree with oberkc. This would be better as a scene that involves no programs. By doing it this way you are giving work to ISY where none is necessary and you are adding three extra sets of simultaneous Insteon PLC commands that may clash and cause failures to communicate. Lastly, as a scene, the buttons will all respond much quicker.

 

I am going to assume that you are not using the 3 kpl buttons for any other purpose aside from what I see here, (as a way to know the status of 'kitchen_oh')

 

First off, is the intent to have those 3 kpl buttons control 'kitchen_oh' or just track it?

- If control it, then delete those 3 scenes (Media_Keypad_D, Garage_Keypad_D, Frontdoor_Keypad_D) and create a new scene. Add the 3 kpl buttons and 'kitchen_oh' switch to that scene, all as controllers. (NOTE: I am assuming 'kitchen_oh' is not already in a scene) In this way, all 3 kpl buttons and 'kitchen_oh' will all turn on/off together regardless of which of the 4 you use to turn the light on/off.

- If the intent is only to follow the status of 'kithcen_oh' with the 3 kpl's, then put the 3 KPL buttons in to that same scene as responders only and 'kitchen_oh' as the only controller. Of course if you actually push any of those 3 kpl buttons, the KPL button itself will toggle it's backlight, but nothing else will happen (such that it is now out of sync).

[MikeD]

I believe ANY change in status will trigger an evaluation.

oberkc:

Yes you are right! thanks for correcting me, I'm still learning...

~Mike

[arw01]

\

First off, is the intent to have those 3 kpl buttons control 'kitchen_oh' or just track it?

- If control it, then delete those 3 scenes (Media_Keypad_D, Garage_Keypad_D, Frontdoor_Keypad_D) and create a new scene. Add the 3 kpl buttons and 'kitchen_oh' switch to that scene, all as controllers. (NOTE: I am assuming 'kitchen_oh' is not already in a scene) In this way, all 3 kpl buttons and 'kitchen_oh' will all turn on/off together regardless of which of the 4 you use to turn the light on/off.

 

 

Looks like I accidently set this up this way, the program may not even by necessary so I dis-abled it and see what's up.

[arw01]

Tonight, I deleted the other scenes, and re-added them to the kitchen scene. IF i use any of the keypad D buttons, OR the kitchen switchlinc, the keypads follow great.

 

HOWEVER, if I turn the switch off with the ISY remotely, the keypads DO NOT follow. Therefore if I use the mobilinc, those keypads can be out of sync as well.

 

Thoughts?

 

Alan

 

[LeeG]

Insteon Direct device commands control only the device it is directed to. Sending an Insteon Direct On/Off command to the switch has no affect on any devices linked to the switch. This is the way Insteon is designed to work. An individual device can be controlled with Direct commands or all the linked devices can be controlled using Scene commands. If all devices should react turn the Scene On/Off from the Admin Console.

 

I believe MobiLinc will turn the Scene On/Off if it finds the device is a Controller of a Scene. This is a feature of MobiLinc rather than an Insteon device response.

[oberkc]

In other words, from mobilinc, turn on/off the scene rather than turning on/off a switch within the scene.

[djones1415]

arw01:

 

I believe you need a program to keep all your soft switch lights in sync with the load you want them to indicate. After struggling through this and figuring out what worked - and knowing that I wouldn't remember the details later, I made some notes for myself. Maybe they will help.

 

And, LeeG, if you think this any of this is unnecessary, please let us know. This seems a little tedious to me, but I haven't found another way to be sure all switch indicator lights properly show the status of the device whether the device is turned on or off by the load switch, by another controller switch, by a program command, as part of a scene, or remotely through a Mobilinc command (again whether device, scene, or other).

 

Sorry that the tabs (and beginning spaces) are removed...hope you can figure out the intended indention from the Word-provided outline numbering...

 

4) How to keep the indicator lights in sync throughout the house

 

a. Definition: Soft Switch – a switch that does not control a physical load at the switch

i. A SwitchLinc, ToggleLinc, SwitchLinc Dimmer, etc. that has its red load wire capped off and unattached

ii. A KeyPadLinc’s first button if the red load wire is capped off and unattached

iii. A KeyPadLinc button other than the first button

 

b. Definition: Load Switch – a switch that controls a load (i.e. has its red wire attached)

i. Keep these switches in a “Loads†folder – this makes it easy for you to find the switches that actually control fixtures/devices

ii. Also in that “Loads†folder are OutletLinc Relays and OutletLinc Dimmers, not technically switches but they act as loads controlling fixtures

 

c. You will need

i. A program for every soft switch that monitors the load(s) used by that switch (“Indicator Programâ€)

1. I keep all of these programs a Soft Switch - Indicator Lights folder

ii. A Scene for every KPL button other than the first

1. I put all of these Scenes in a Folder: Soft Switch Indicator Lights

2. The Scene will consist of a single responder – the button

a. For example, Scene Fam S1KPL2 is for the FAMily room Switch 1 KPL Button 2 and has a single responder FAM S1KPL-2 (Family Overheads)

 

d. When you first link a new regular soft switch (4(a)(i)), you don’t need to do anything special

 

e. When you first link a new KPL:

i. Go ahead and add a scene for each KPL button 2-8

ii. Don’t add the responder to each of those scenes yet; by not adding the responder, there will be no plus sign next to the scene entry in the folder; that will indicate to you (and make it easy for you to see) that you haven’t created a corresponding Indicator Program that needs that scene yet

 

f. When you assign a use to a regular soft switch (4(a)(i) or 4(a)(ii))

i. Create an Indicator Program for the switch

If Status ‘Loads / 1FL S6-Hallway Overheads’ is not Off

Then Set ‘1FL S2-(Hallway Overheads)’ On

Else Set ‘1FL S2-(Hallway Overheads)’ Off

ii. Note you test the Status of the actual load switch/outlet…

iii. …and you set the switch light using the switch itself

iv. Note you can address the switch directly (Set, not Set Scene)

 

g. When you assign a use to a KPL button (4(a)(iii))

i. Add the responder to the scene in the Soft Switch Indicator Lights folder

ii. Create the Indicator Program for the button

If Status ‘Loads / FamO1-LLamp’ is not Off

And Status ‘Loads / FamO3-RLamp’ is not Off

Then Set Scene ‘Soft Switch Indicator Lights / Fam S1KPL-2’ On

Else Set Scene ‘Soft Switch Indicator Lights / Fam S1KPL-2’ Off

iii. Note you need to address the scene (Set Scene, not Set) since you cannot turn a KPL button on or off directly (you can for KPL button one only because the ISY knows it has a load attached, even though it is capped)