mountainman3520 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Hello, I'm in the process of setting up my first INSTEON devices and I'm having a problem. Help would be appreciated. My setup includes: (1) ISY994i Pro (2) KeypadLinc Dimmer (8 button, v.41), button A wired to light A (3) SwitchLinc Dimmer (dual band high power, v.40), wired to light B (4) RemoteLinc2 (4 scene, v.00) I created two scenes. Scene A includes: - KeypadLinc Dimmer button A (not sure if this is considered a controller since it is wired/dimming light A or a responded because it is receiving commands from itself and the RemoteLinc2) - RemoteLinc 2 scene A, setup as a controller for KeypadLinc button A Scene A seems to work perfectly. Both keypadlinc button A and remotelinc2 scene A can turn light A on or off, or dim it up or down by pressing and holding the button. Also the backlight on keypadlinc button A always indicated the correct state, ie if light A is 100% on or on but dimmed the button backlight is on, if light A is 0% on or off then the button backlight is off. Scene B includes: - SwitchLinc Dimmer as a responder (right?) wired to light B - RemoteLinc 2 button B setup as a controller for the switchlinc - Keypadlinc button B setup as a controller for the switchlinc I'm having strange problems on scene B. The switchlinc on/off/dim up/dim down features work perfectly and the brightness indicator strip seems to always accurately reflect light state. The Remotelinc2 on/off/dim up/dim down features also work perfectly. But the Keypadlinc button B isn't working quite right. The keypadlinc button works correctly by itself, turning the light on/off/dim up/dim down, and the button backlight is correct when I use the keypadlinc to control the change. And the keypadlinc correctly receives and displays light state when changed using the remotelinc2. But if I change the light state using the switchlinc, the keypadlinc doesn't seem to receive the change hence the button backlight fails to toggle on/off, and the next press of the keypadlinc button should toggle the light to the opposite state but instead it just toggles the internal keypadlinc state back to the correct value without changing the light. My theory is that the keypadlinc needs to be a responder to the switchlinc and isn't correctly setup that way. But I don't know how to confirm this is true or how to fix it. The web GUI provides some data confirming the observation that everything is working except the switchlinc is not sending state change notifications to the keypadlinc. So far I've not messed with anything advanced in the config settings or tried to manually setup connections between devices. I just created the scenes, drug the various devices under them, and checked the settings to cause all the on levels to be 100% and the ramp rates to be 0.5s. Getting this setup working reliably is really important to my INSTEON setup as I plan to install keypadlincs in multiple locations as additional controllers to check the status of lights sprinkled around the house and allow control of those lights. This won't work if a keypadlinc placed in the same scene as a switchlinc doesn't correctly display the switchlinc status. Please help. Thanks!
LeeG Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 The SwitchLinc should be a Controller in Scene B. The paddle physically controls light B because it is attached to the Red Load wire. However, the SwitchLinc paddle does not control KPL button B because the SwitchLinc is defined as a Responder rather than a Controller. The ISY assumes a device/button added to a Scene as a Controller is also a Responder (assuming the device has Responder capability). The KeypadLinc button and RemoteLinc2 button are correctly defined as Controllers of Scene B. EDIT: as an FYI Scene A should have its KPL button as a Controller
mountainman3520 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 Great! I reprogrammed my scenes such that everything is a controller. I guess my problem before was that I was thinking that I needed to have a controller and a responder and it was almost working, but not quite. In reality every device on this setup needs to be a controller. Sounds like anything that ever sends a control command anywhere needs to be a controller, right? So only a device that has no button and no ability to ever generate a control command would be set as a responder. And yet the ISY admin console often defaults devices to responders, so I had to flip the config to controller after dragging the device to the scene. The only remaining flaky thing I'm seeing is that the checkbox to "apply changes to all devices" on a scene is flaky and doesn't seem to work. Also within each device attached to a scene, the "applied locally" flag also seems flaky. Even after I click "copy scene attributes from scene X" box, and it correctly copies those attributes, the "applied locally" flag still doesn't go away. Maybe it just stays there forever once a change has ever been applied locally? Or clears at reboot? Seems like maybe a bug in the GUI. I'm very happy to have my first scenes and devices working! Thanks. Now its time to start installing a bunch of switches and keypads all over the house!
LeeG Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 A device/node can be a Controller in only one Scene. This is the way Insteon is designed. Not the actual limitation it may sound like when first understood. An individual KeypadLinc button may be controlled by several other devices/nodes so it can appear as a Responder in a number of Scenes. However, when the KeypadLinc button is pressed On/Off it can only control a single list of devices. For the Scene with the list of these devices, the KeypadLinc is a Controller. It would not be possible for that KeypadLinc button to added as a Controller to another Scene as which Scene would be controlled when the button is pressed. Being a Controller in only one Scene generally makes sense when it is looked at from that perspective. It is not the case that a device/node that can Control is always defined as a Controller. If the function of a Scene is contain a list of devices/nodes that are managed from a Program for example, likely all the devices/nodes will be defined as Responders even when they also have Controller capability. For example, at 11:00 PM all the basement lights should be turned Off. A Scene is defined with all the basement lights as Responders. The Program turns the Scene Off at 11:00 PM. In this case an individual device/node is not going to turn the Scene On/Off, only the Program, so none of the devices/nodes are defined as Controllers even though it is likely they all have Controller capability.
Harry Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 I'd like to jump in on this thread and ask a question - since this is very close to the same problem I can't figure out... I have two switchlincs that each control a load. Lets call them SL1 and SL2. On the other side of the room, I have an 8 button keypadlinc (Called 'Kitchen KPL'). I have crosslinked one button to SL1 and another to SL2. I have a third button setup to control both SL1 and SL2. I call this Combo1. Combo 1 button works well. Press it once, both groups of lights come on. Press it again, both groups of lights go off. My problem is this: If I turn on SL1 and SL2, I want the Combo 1 button to light up so I can turn both groups off with the first press. Right now, I have to press Combo 1 to get it in sync, then press it again so it will send the OFF signal to the Switchlincs. I have a program to set a State Variable ($State_Combo1) based on the condition of SL1 and SL2, and the logic for this seems to works correctly based on what I see in the Admin Console. I wanted to use this to identify if the Combo1 button should be ON or OFF. $State_Combo1 = 1 only if both SL1 and SL2 are on, otherwise it = 0. But I can't get a program to change the state of the Combo1 button. I tried this: If $State_Combo1 is 1 Then Set 'Kitchen KPL - Combo1' On --- If $State_Combo1 is 0 Then Set 'Kitchen KPL - Combo1' Off I have tried all sorts of other combinations of code. I have been able to get this to work to control another group of lights. But I can't get it to control that KeyPadLinc button, Combo1. What am I doing wrong? Thanks...
LeeG Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Is State_Combo1 an Integer Variable or a State Variable?
Harry Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 It is a State Variable. I tried it with an Integer first and nothing worked. Then I read that a State Variable will trigger a program. It does that when I had it controlling a different set of light on a SwitchLinc Dimmer.
LeeG Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Without seeing the Program that manages $State_Combo1 State Variable, the posted Program should work. 'Kitchen KPL - Combo1' must be the load control button on the KeypadLinc. Using Programs | Summary tab will show if/when the Program was last triggered and whether the If was True or False. With that information in hand either the Program is not being triggered or the Variable values are not as expected making the If False.
Harry Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 I will try controlling the load control button. I do not have the KeyPadLinc connected to any load. I put the load over to a SwitchLinc on the other wall. The 'Combo1' button is button E on the 8 button KeyPadLinc. Am I to understand that any button other than 'A' cannot be controlled by a program?
LeeG Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 It is not possible to turn a Secondary button On/Off directly with a Program. The posted example does not show using a Scene to turn 'Kitchen KPL - Combo1' On/Off. The Secondary button must be added to a Scene as a Responder and turn the Scene On/Off. There is no placeholder in an Insteon Direct command to identify which Secondary button. In fact if 'Kitchen KPL - Combo1' is a Secondary button I don't know how the posted statements were generated.
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