Jimini

Thanks. I’ll have to find this loX launcher. I don’t think I have it already loaded. Would you happen to have a pointer to it?

Can I run ISY programs when my internet connection is down? I have a power grid outage but my solar system keeps my local WiFi operating. However, my isp is down. I need to run some ISY programs for house power management with grid down, but I can’t execute ISY admin console because it can’t load something. I think Java related.

Sorry, you are apparently pointing out the inadequacy of my investigation 3 years ago or the addition of more ZWave manufacturers since then. Once I decided on Insteon, I had not thought there was a need to continue watching alternate or new technologies. That is certainly no longer correct. Thanks for pointing out ZWave as a possible alternative.

I personally never tried the Leviton devices. About three years ago when I finally decided to replace my X10 system that I had been using for over 20 years at two successive homes, I looked at various forums including this one. I liked the ISY controller and it appeared that Insteon, especially the new modules with RF as well as AC-line communication was favored by what I read so I went "hole-hog" and replaced my X10 system with ISY and Insteon. It would certainly be preferred if there was a technology that was supported by more than one manufacturer. But I guess patents as well as a small market are making that difficult.

That wasn't true a short time ago. I managed to snag one from Amazon. But SmartHome and Insteon sites were sold out.

So then a USB PLM can somehow be used with my ISY 994? When your post popped up, I was reading another thread about ISY and Polisy and there was mention of "the new USB PLM". Is there some new USB PLM to replace the old 2413U? What should I be purchasing as my backup for now and replacement when ISY on Polisy is ready for prime time?

Thank you for the added information. In fact, I don't need a PLM now. But now that I just discovered that Insteon is disappearing, it seemed beneficial to at least look for a PLM spare as backup support my large number of Insteon devices. Waiting is reasonable but isn't it likely that the few USB PLMs will be gone by the time the new ISY on Polisy is available? Or do I need to search more for new threads on what to do about Insteon disappearing? Even though I first saw the issue of no more Insteon recently as now I have a new need for the added feature of the I/O Linc (the other thread I jumped into), most of the discussion I have found on this topic so far are 1-2 years old.

There appear to be a few PLM 2413U available but no 2413S. Can I replace my 2413S with a 2413U connected to my ISY 994i ZW+IR PRO?

Hello, Sorry to break in with somewhat of a tangent, but my question is related to Insteon replacements. Does any one have a replacement for the Insteon I/O Linc? I've tried several possible sources but only E-Bay seems to have some used ones. I don't need all the functions. I just need a device that will tell my ISY if a 5V supply is on or not. Thanks for any help.

Thanks. That's a big help.

There certainly seems to be two different perspectives on which is the "easier" method to implement these CAO tags. larryllix has has been very forthcoming with information about the KumoApp method. If you can point me to information on where to get started implementing the polisy method, I would like to take a look at what would be involved there. But I will need to understand the nearly turnkey implantation of the polisy. My experience in this world of ISY and now CAO Tags is that it's all easy once you understand it but it takes some hunting and asking naive questions to get started.

I have not yet expanded my ISY system to include anything running a Polyglot. As I don't yet have any other use for that, this method making use of variable substitution via the KumoApp looked like a way to make use of the CAO Tags without that extra hardware. For a while, that appeared to have possibly been a bad tradeoff of time vs. merchandise, but things are starting to make some sense to me now. I have four Tags and a Tag Manager on order now. When they arrive, I'll start to work on the implementation to see if this was a good direction to go or not.

Thanks for the warning about needing a better watchdog. I'll look at that once I get something running. The specific line of code I referenced was just to show an example of this "KumoApp.xxxx". This looks to be referencing something in a KumoApp library. Does that get resolved automatically once the code is uploaded to the cloud or to the Tag Manger? I appreciate your issue with new languages. I spent years with Assembly Code, Fortran, then Pascal, C and C++. ISY and now these CAO tags are my new language adventures at present.

Thank you very much. Just a simple explanation that the KumoApp code runs in the CAO cloud or inside the Tag Manager clears up one mystery. That may have been obvious but I saw no mention of that anywhere. I did read at least one entry in the ISY Wiki about the REST Interface. It included details of commands, etc. but no overview of how it works. I will re-read. Knowing now that the setup to ISY is coming from the Tag Manager may make a second read more clear. I don't understand your last comment that you have not been able to get your KumoApp code on their library. Do you mean that you could not get your code added to their library? My main question about KumoApp was the references I saw in your code, such as "KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 90000)", which appears to reference some routines in a KumoApp library. But now that I understand that all your code gets put into their cloud or their Tag Manager, perhaps that gives you access to that library. I will have to see what documentation is included with the Tag Manger that I just ordered. Thanks Again.

Thank you for the reply larryllix. I have looked at your code for the KumoApp, but I need to educate myself about some very basic terms and concepts. I don't know what the ISY REST Injection is. It appears that the Java code of the KumoApp is something that needs to be run on a computer connected to the same network as my ISY. Is that correct? There code references objects like "KumoApp. " which I assume reside in some library. Where do I find that? I just now found a page titled: "ISY Developers:Java Web Services Tutorial". It refers to various licenses. Apparently, I need to pick one and have access to it. Sorry, but all this is new territory for me, which I have not encountered as yet with my ISY programming up to now.

I am finally able to free some time for learning how to use these CAO Tags. As suggested by larryllix, I’ve been poking around for forum entries related to Kumoapps and Custom URL Calling as well as websites for the CAO Tags themselves, but I find that I am missing a few important pieces of information or perhaps I have a misunderstanding about a few important pieces of information. It would be extremely helpful if someone could short circuit my rather random search and point me in the correct direction. My goal is to incorporate the reading of several CAO tags into my ISY programs to first just report the data but ultimately to create some actions based upon that data. To get started, I think I need to purchase at least one temperature reading Tag and one open/close Tag as well as a Tag Manager, but I have not found any description of what this manager does or how it must be programmed. My limited understanding is that once everything is configured, the Tag reports will be inserted into ISY variables, some of which are state variables such that they trigger an ISY program to start. Is this correct? I have seen a few versions of these Kumoapps, which appear to perform the configuration, assigning Tags to ISY variables. But I don’t understand where this Kumoapp is executed. Is this Kumoapp code part of something called a REST interface? I found a page or so with details of this REST in the ISY Twiki, but there is no explanation of what it is or how it works for a beginner. Any help to get started will be appreciated.

Thank you both, MrBill and larryllix, for you good suggestions. I will have to investigate both. It has been suggested to me, possibly by you larryllix, to look at the CAO tags for a better temperature sensor than what I am using now. This must be an amazing device if it could also be used for sensing an open/close status. I have been procrastinating that investigation because it involves also a polyglot at the same time. But I will need to find the time for this. Thanks again to both of you.

I see that there are Insteon 2421 and 2843 units to monitor garage doors and barn doors. Has anyone found one that can be mounted on an outside gate to monitor whether the gate is open or closed? I want to be able to tie this into my ISY system.

Yes, I agree that each intermediate step that stores a result into a variable must fit within the precision available for that variable but it's doing something more sophisticated than just converting all floating point numbers to 32-bit binary integers by shifting the decimal point and then doing 32-bit arithmetic. For multiplication, it appears to be doing a double precision operation, i.e. 64-bit multiplication, before adjusting the result to match the specified precision of the 32-bit variable into which it will be stored. Very nice how it keeps track of the specified precision step by step.

This comment of mine is a bit late and out of order but I found this thread by searching for one related to arithmetic and/or precision. This was the only find. And I couldn't find any discussion of this in the ISY users guide. My comment regards an earlier statement that one can change the precision of integer type variables up to 8. The 8 includes the ones place, so only 7 decimal places. However, it is important to keep in mind that apparently this 8 possible digits appears to include those on both sides of the decimal point. I am trying to include a formula that squares a number of order 50 and then multiplies it by a number of order 0.005 before completing the calculation with a few more steps. I declared all the variables involved to have precision 6 (could have used 5) as I didn't want to lose the contribution of the quadratic term. Squaring the first number as the first step produced a negative result, a common symptom of twos-complement binary arithmetic. Backing the precision down to 4 and setting the constants (e.g. the number of order 0.005) to be 100 times larger, removed the negative intermediate result and then dividing the final result by 100 produced the expected final result. Changing the order to multiply by the number of order 50 by the number of order 0.005 first and then complete the square by multiplying that result by the first number of order 50 did not produce a negative result but still an incorrect one. I don't have an explanation for that but working with precession of all variables at 4 did give me the correct result with no problem with overflow. Also, thank you kclenden for the tip about using state variables and the Event Viewer for testing this. It was much easier than sending out notifications.

larrylllix, do you mean using the "Time is 1:00:00 After Last Run programxxx" in the IF clause with a Then clause to wake up the program? Sounds just like a Wait but may use different logic within ISY. Seems like UD people should be able to recommend this if it solves the problem.

So many replies, thank you all. To respond to as many as I can: I am starting to understand how the Wait 1 Hour might screw up at the clock change based upon larryllix's reply. That may be the base problem for any waits that cross a clock change. My little routine with the Wait 1 Hour, actually increments the state variable, so that part has been working for a few weeks. Just died at the clock change. It appears to me that apostolakisl's suggestion of using the ISY Time Data Node is the way to go, or at least try. Would it not be bothered by a clock change? But I need to know more about this Nodeserve. I am subscribed to the ISY Portal along the Network add-on, but beyond that, I'm lost as to how to load this ISY Time Data Node. When I pull down "Noe Servers" from my ISY Console and select Configure, I get an option for Query that seems to do nothing and a long list of numbers, which I take to be nodes, each one marked Empty. Is this the right place to go for the ISY Time Data Node? More info would be helpful. And one last reply to larryllix suggestion about graphing software inside ISY, I will have to investigate that further. Interesting to get all that inside ISY instead of sharing the work with Google Scripts. Jimini

My programs that work off time of day or sunrise/sunset, worked after the DST change without any problem. It was just the program with the Wait 1 Hour that appears to have stopped. This interplay between ISY and LAN/WAN presents interesting "gotchas". I have a set of programs to monitor the temperature of my "poor-mans" wine closet. The closet sits under a stairwell but plenty of extra insulation and extra heat mass objects and then a fan that sucks air from the house crawl space. Here on the central coast, I believe our temperatures are moderate enough to allow holding a fairly stable temperature with help from the cool air in the crawl space. ISY monitors the temperature every hour and records the data in a file in its webspace. But I decided it was a bit awkward to pull that up periodically to look at it. So I have ISY send an email to my gmail account and then I wrote a Google Script to grab the email message once an hour and put it in a Google sheet that makes pretty graphs, etc. But then I found an occasional problem where my ISP takes down our service for a while, usually after midnight, but sometime lasting for several hours. Even though my LAN is working just fine, ISY can't send an email to my Google account operating in the Ether somewhere. Not much I can do about that, except I added a test to the Google Script, that if it doesn't find an email from ISY when it should be there, it sends me its own message warning me that I'm missing data. It's also an interesting monitor of how often I'm missing internet service even when I'm not trying to use it.

I agree that DST is more damaging than helpful. I would prefer 12 months of ST but would take 12 months of either just to get rid of the switch. For one who has joined meetings both in person and by video for the past 25 years in 3 out of the 4 US time zones, two in Europe and 2 in Asia, I think it might be complicated to eliminate all time zones but having the US on one might be possible. But before either that or elimination of DST is attempted, it is complete lunacy to have some states or parts of some states not follow everyone else. I can never figure out when to call my cousin in Arizona, whether she is at the same time or not as us. But back to my issue about ISY and the time shift, seems like I should ask @apostolakisl. I'm running firmware version 5.0.15A, which is not the absolute most recent version but close to it. I've been avoiding upgrading because it's generally a hassle (not just for ISY) unless it's actually fixing something I use. The problem with this is that I won't know if it fixed this problem for another 6 months. I could live with kick starting the programs twice year as long as I happened not to be traveling when that happened. There are a few programs that I would prefer not to stop while I was away on a trip. I hope you, larryllix, don't have any "essential" programs hung because your router died.

A new problem just occurred this morning. My little routine that waits for one hour, increments a state variable and then executes another "Wait 1 hour" failed at the beginning of daylight savings time this morning. The routine correctly woke up at 1am, but failed to wake up and increment the state variable at 2am or any time after that until I kick started it again. After the kick start, it has correctly awakened in hour hour intervals. Does anyone know if it is documented that the Wait command fails when ISY changes its time twice a year?